Topic: Paul Ysart Fountain

[Nick77]

I thought this might be of interest.

 I picked this up at a fair yesterday it was sitting amongst a group of Caithness weights. I always understood these Fountain weights to be Harland period although this one has no H cane or label, but on paying, the stallholder went to put it in a Caithness box, having a bag full of bubble wrap with me I told her not to bother and re use the box as it wasn't a Caithness piece. She then said that it had come in a Caithness box as they had bought them all direct from Caithness (the others weren't seconds).

So it would seem likely that this design was at least created during his time at Caithness and has been sitting in a store somewhere?

It seems to be identical to PY 4008 on Ysartglass.com and page 143 of the Ysart Glass book.

Nick

[chopin-liszt]

I know there is still old stock from Perth lurking in the recesses of the visitor centre in Crieff - and a few are out for sale. I don't know how much still lurks in the recesses.

There are certainly Toffolo uber-Magnum beasts, which I know date to 2000 or earlier (they were in the SGS Exhibition in 2000) out for sale in the shop, along with a couple of cases of other scarcities and ltd editions as well as all the new stock and seconds.
But I'm really not up on pwty stuff.

[KevinH]

Yes, it is interesting. So far, I have not seen or heard of any confirmed Fountain weights by Paul during his Caithness years.

From the seller's information, this might prove to be a first. But I would suggest getting it checked under shortwave uv. If it is Caithness period, it will show as blue under the shortwave (as far as we know, Paul always used the "best glass" [lead-based] for his weights at Caithness).

Nick, if you have not already done so,  could you try checking your weight, from all views, against the photo in the Ysart Glass book. Could it be the exact same weight?

I have seen several very similar examples, usually with similar colours and less then 3 inch height and with dome being "less pointed" than many of the other Fountain weights.

I have one of these with much the same red for the ground, probably the same yellow centred + white outer twist, and with a pale purple centred + white outer twist. Size is 2 3/8 inch diameter at the widest point and 2 13/16 inch height. It has no label and no H cane but is scratch signed P. Ysart. It fluoresces the same as my other Harland period weights, signed and unsigned.

I bought mine directly from Paul's last secretary who received it from Paul in 1979.

[Nick77]

Hi Kevin,

I'll check it under UV tomorrow, I must say that at the angle I first held it at when I checked the book it did indeed appear to be identical, I'll check it again.

Nick

[Nick77]

Only managed to check this today, using my (low power) UV lamp it doesn't fluoresce blue but a dusty green the same as an H cane Harland weight and an early version of Caithness Flower in the rain I have here.
   After close study I don't believe this is the same weight as in the Ysart Glass book.I cannot get an angle that looks identical also the books is stated as orange and yellow where as mine is two shades of orange to me. Also mine measures the same as your Kevin at 2 13/16 x 2 3/8 whereas the book states 2 1/2 x 2 3/4 although that could be down to how it was measured (I use an electronic vernier calipers).

Nick

[KevinH]

Thanks Nick, but could you please confirm that your uv test used shortwave (around 265 nanometre rather than longwave 365 nm).

There are all sorts of variations of certain fluoresence colours reported by different people (including that for my own checking of my weights) and "dusty green" is one of those that could fall into different categories.

But if it was a shortwave test and your Fountain weight was not blue fluorescence, then I reckon it is a Harland period item.

[Nick77]

It actually lists shortwave at 254nm, long wave at 365nm,  an old English lead crystal weight definitely shows blue at 254nm wavelength. This Fountain weight, the H marked Harland weight and a range of Caithness weights all show the same dusty green.

Nick

[tropdevin]

***

Hi both.  I think the above illustrates one of the (many) uncertainties with UV testing: different lamp / filter combinations do not always provide the same wavelength illumination, and so different lamps can give different results, particularly at the short wave end.

Alan

[KevinH]

Alan is correct, but in this instance Nick's confirmation fits with my expectations - and my own uv results.

The main point is that under shortwave uv, Nick's weight does not show as blue. If it had been a Caithness weight made by Paul, it would have been from the Wick factory using lead-based glass. At the Harland works, Paul's batch was not lead-based.

Many Caithness (non-PY) weights also show as a "dusty green" under shortwave uv as noted by Nick. This is due to them being made either at Oban (lead-based glass not used) or from a non-lead batch at Perth (where, from a certain date, lead-based glass was used as well as a non-lead batch).

[Nick77]

So quite how this one came to be back at Caithness will remain a mystery it seems.

Nick