Topic: Decanter with amethyst stopper/foot

[Bernard C]

See five images, all but one with click main image to enlarge feature, via http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-20028

Both body and stopper dip-moulded with 6 x Swag pattern (Hajdamach I, p432 - "Festoon").   Elegant engraved stopper No. "7" (or "4") on both parts.   H. 10½" (exact) / 27cm, w. 2lb 4oz 1026g.

I am sure that I have seen this before, in a publication or on the GMB, but can't find it.   I'm also sure that it is Thomas Webb, probably 1930s.   Please will someone put me out of my misery.

Thanks for your interest,

Bernard C. 

[Greg.]

Hi Bernard, Thomas Webb it is. You may be recalling the one in the web link below:

http://www.stylendesign.com/guidepages/estoz4.html


Hope this helps.

[johnphilip]

It also comes in blue and gold/amber Bernard I have had both .

[keith]

...and green,

[Bernard C]

Grateful thanks, Greg, JP, and Keith.   Yes, Greg, that was where I saw the image before.

I notice that this website doesn't mention a factory mark.   Then how was it attributed?   Have any of you seen an example with a factory mark?   I am mindful of the jugs mentioned here and elsewhere, which look very Webb but are more than likely not.    I just want to get it 100% correct and not mislead anyone.

Bernard C. 

[Greg.]

Hi Bernard, I'm not sure of the reference used for the Thomas Webb attribution in the link above. Of the 3 or 4 amethyst versions of this decanter, I have seen, none have carried a Webb mark.

[Bernard C]

Thanks Greg.   JP and Keith — did any of the other coloured examples you've seen carry factory marks or any other indicator of maker?

Bernard C. 

[keith]

I have an amethyst and green, neither have a mark, can't say I've ever seen one with a mark,

[Bernard C]

Thanks, Keith.   What you and Greg reported about the lack of a maker's mark seems to be fairly standard for this pattern of decanter.

Stuck in a less than satisfactory limbo, I decided to try something different.   So I contacted both the stylendesign website proprietor and Andy McConnell, author of The Decanter, for their views.

The stylendesign website proprietor kindly explained that it is a Webb attribution that caused them initial difficulty for the same reason.   However matching glasses that occasionally come with the decanters were marked.    Also a rare matching jug was marked.   The final step appeared in Glass of the 20's and 30's, a Millers guide by Frankie Leibe with Jeanette Hayhurst, 1999.   On page 11 is a similar amethyst decanter which is positively attributed to Thomas Webb (where I've seen it in a book, Greg).

Andy McConnell kindly explained that he had one or two matching tumblers and confirmed the attribution above.

That seems to wrap it up nicely, except for one more problem.   Why didn't Leibe/Hayhurst explain how they achieved the attribution?

If you read the two pages entitled Optic Moulding, you will notice a mention of unmarked pieces in the opening paragraph along with how pieces are attributed in general, but not mentioning marked accompanying glasses or any other type of go-with.   At the start of the description of the decanter on page 11 they mention matching glasses without explanation.   I suggest two possibilities:-

It was so obvious (to them) that they just forgot! ... or, more likely,

an unsympathetic editor deleted a few words when trying to fit the words and images into the space available — without checking with the authors that the outcome still made sense.

Grateful thanks to everyone who helped, and apologies to Anne for not making it clear earlier that this topic hadn't quite finished.

Any other relevant points?

Bernard C. 

[Paul S.]

relevant, but possibly more of interest than importance, and I should have spotted this some days back when this thread was in its hey-day.

The Leibe/Hayhurst example, for those who don't have the booklet, appears to be in a T/Webb pattern called 'fircone' which dates from 1903, rather than their much earlier 'festoon' which dates apparently to 1844 (the pattern described by Bernard as being on his example).

Anyway the point of my note is just to mention that there is another illustrated example which is showing on page 41 of the catalogue for Part II of the Michael Parkington collection.          This is another clear/amethyst example, and again appears to be in 'fircone' like the Hayhurst decanter.
In the catalogue, this item is part of a job lot which includes Walsh, Webb, Edinburgh Crystal and this clear/amethyst decanter.          In the catalogue, all but our decanter are attributed to these other factories, leaving the piece in question which is catalogued simply as ....   'a decanter and stopper, 1930's'.

Which is a rather long winded way of saying that in the absence of the catalogue stating an attribution, then it's not unreasonable to assume that the Parkington decanter is also unmarked - so another example of this bottle without a backstamp.

Difficult to see the pattern on Bernard's bottle - white backgrounds when photographing clear glass, often don't provide the necessary contrast.