Topic: old carafe with mark

[bat20]

Found in a 50p bootfair box i can't see this old carafe adding to my already meagre retirement fund,but i'm a sucker for any marks on glass and this one has a acid etched GR on the polished pontil with a shed load of wear on base,a tough life in a hotel perhaps?any thoughts many thanks.

[Greg.]

I wonder if the 'GR' mark to the base could stand for 'Georgius Rex' (King George), rather than a specific manufacturer mark.  Could this possibly have been produced for a pub or similar and be related to excise weights and measures, just a thought.

[bat20]

Ahh,that's interesting Greg,just had a quick look up and found some old bottles with GR seals ,looking more carefully i noticed the bottom of the G is shaped like an arrow,i don't know if that hints of an anchor?it's heavy and i would say the glass quality is good.

[Greg.]

Thanks for the close up picture. The mark appears slightly different to the majority of standard 'GR' marks.

I came across the examples in the link below, which look the same. These are described as Government issue or possibly having a military connection. I know the arrow symbol is quite widely used, so may be worth hanging fire, for further opinions. I have seen other examples with the 'GR' mark with a separate arrow, however, the examples in the link below are the only ones that I can find at present that match up with yours.

 http://ebay.eu/1nKRLQx

[bat20]

Thanks Greg,i think they are the same,in theory i should be able to find who made glass for the services during the 30's,the extreme wear makes sense as well,lol.

[Paul S.]

I feel unsure that this particular GR represents a royal cypher/monogram.

Looking at cyphers etc. for George V (crowned 1911) and George VI (crowned 1937), they are far more italicized/stylized and florid than the letters shown here, or on the linked sellers carafes.        Usually, they incorporate crowns and an indication of which George they are.

I've no idea how the ebay seller attributes theirs to 'government issue' and 'for military use', or why they should settle specifically on the 1930's - 1940's  -  their carafes are certainly simple in shape, but they don't shout art deco.
No quoted source is offered to substantiate any of these comments, although it's always possible the quoted date is correct.

Greg's reference to the 'arrow symbol' refers to the British Governments use of a very broad headed symbol used by the war department/ministry of defence over a very long period of time  - pic attached, and this is sometimes seen on wooden and metal tools etc. found at boot sales.

If Greg has seen glass with initials and a separate arrow-head, then I'd agree that does sound to be war department/government issue of some description  -  I can't recall ever seeing glass with that broad arrow-head symbol.

I'd have thought more likely that this GR has a reference to some commercial institution/hotel/pub rather than being a Buckingham Palace throw out

[Greg.]

Good to get your thoughts Paul.

In light of the differences with this particular GR mark, I took the liberty of contacting the owner of the website www.coffinisland.ca which specialises in British Military Bottles. They kindly confirmed that the arrow to denote crown ownership/government standard would be distinct from the initials. They were inclined to agree with Paul’s suggestion, that the carafe is likely to be from a commercial establishment or mess (perhaps one with royal patronage but this is purely speculation). Interesting website for anyone interested.

[chriscooper]

Learn something new every day now I know why convicts have arrows on their clothing.

http://blogs.hht.net.au/cook/shattered-remains/

[Paul S.]

apologies in advance if this is thought to be overdoing the subject, but  ........  it might just be of interest to show couple of flatware related finds from charity shop venues which are vaguely to do with part of this thread - found in last couple of days.

first is another of the British War Dept. arrow-head symbols - this time on back of a fork handle  -  and the other a royal cypher for George V on top side of spoon handle.               This could be a silver item - not plated - it comes off quite black when rubbed with a silver-dip type liquid, but unusually doesn't carry any other marks to indicate type of metal content.

Anyway, if I ever AGAIN get invited to Buckingham Palace I can return their spoon.

[Frank]

Railway or Shipping company mark is also a possibility.