Topic: General question about Murano paperweight bases

[BobKegeles]

Here's the background, in my eternal quest to differentiate Murano w8s from others (Chinese, French, US, etc) I know one of the important factors is to look at the base.

I find that many of the "better" (more pristine) flower, scramble, and millefiori Murano pieces have what I call a sliced base. Highly polished, but cut higher on the sphere than what I consider standard. Most paperweights, whether Scottish, US, Chinese, have a relatively small base, keeping the "sphere" as much as possible. What I call the "slice" is cut higher, thereby lessening the "sphere".

I also find Murano pieces with highly polished smaller, more standard bases, but still flat.

Then there are the pieces that have what I call "edged" or "ledged" bases. Highly polished, flat around the perimeter for 1/4" -1/2", then softly concave, though still highly polished.

And of course there are the pieces with what I call the standard base, small, keeping the "sphere" intact, but not highly polished, and often not perfectly round. For a while I assumed that if the base wasn't perfectly round, and if not highly polished, then it wasn't Murano, but I've found these with Murano stickers, so there went that theory.

I feel comfortable saying any w8 with the "slice" bottom is Murano, at least I've never found one that wasn't. Is that base style emblematic of one specific factory, or is it wide spread on Murano.

I find most of the pieces with the "ledged/edged" base have Murano labels, so I'm feeling comfy with those as well.

So to recap -

"Sliced" base, highly polished - Murano for sure
"Edged" base, highly polished - Most likely Murano
"regular" base, highly polished - Most likely Murano
"regular" base, NOT highly polished - Most likely NOT Murano (with some exceptions).

Am I on the right track? Or am I just making logical leaps, that are incorrect?

[paperweights]

I suggest you look a little more carefully at the contents of the paperweight and pay less attention to the base.  It is really hard to be 100% certain about the origin simply by looking at the base.  I have examples of antiques with what you would call a sliced base.  They have probably been restored at one point to remove base scratches. 

[tropdevin]

***

I agree with Allan: the base does give some clues (but may not be original), whereas the best information is from the design.  Most Murano paperweights are identifiable by the style of the millefiori canes, but the frequent use of aventurine in a design often indicates Murano too.  I do not think the base gives any clue as to which of the many Murano factories may have made the piece (unless it has the name etched on it, or a label ).

Just to add to the confusion, I have seen a few Murano paperweights with a concave polished base, and also a couple with an 'unfinished' base that showed a depression and pontil scar.

There are a good number of Murano images in the 'Murano project' pages of my website.

Alan

[Lustrousstone]

As in all glass, the base is only one of many clues and must be looked at along with everything else.

[BobKegeles]

Thank you all.

All the responses are very very welcome, and appreciated, and what I take away, is that the base is a minimal issue to pay attention to. This is very helpful. Thank you all.

Alan, I've perused your "Murano Project" pages several times, and they've been very helpful to me. However I'll have to look again, I didn't recall that there were any shots of the bases, which is why I posed the question.

I wouldn't have thought the bases were terribly important if it weren't for the fact that anytime I've forgotten to post a photo of a base, I've gotten a response from someone, "please post a base photo". That gave me a false sense of it's importance in defining origin.

I buy and sell a great many w8s, many on eBay (100+ purchases ad 100+ sales monthly), and am trying my damnedest to not be one of the "incompetent", or "uncaring", or for that matter, "fraudulent" sellers that populate eBay. Like most of you, I just shake my head at the level of idiocy prevalent there. Like the listing I saw yesterday, "Murano paperweight signed by Seattle artist So and So"

Therefore I'm trying to learn. My primary focus has always been the American Studio from the 70's through today, but I've recently expanded my focus into the Scottish, Swedish, and Italian pieces as well. Admittedly that expansion originally was somewhat forced on me, by purchasing items that were mislabeled, and needing to figure out what they really are.

Bob

Thank you all very much.

[KevinH]

As Christine has said, the base finish is one part of an overall analysis of any glass item.

So the base is not "a minimal issue to pay attention to". In fact, sometimes, as with my own assertions on Ysart weights, it can be a primary clue - such as for deciding if a weight is by Paul Ysart or his father Salvador.

And following from that, yes, base photos of any queried weight are, in my view, always welcome. But I do agree with Alan and Allan, that the main attention should be to the overall look and feel and the pattern etc.

As for the base of Murano weights, I definitely agree that a specific maker cannot easily be determined by the way the base is finished.

[RescoCCC]

For a while I assumed that if the base wasn't perfectly round, and if not highly polished, then it wasn't Murano, but I've found these with Murano stickers, so there went that theory.

There are plenty of Chinese weights on the market with Murano stickers.

[Fuhrman Glass]

I've personally made 1000's of paperweights and they have all types of bases to them. some pieces require more grinding and polishing than others and there are variations in some depending on what time of day it was when I created it. Early a.m. and late in the day may not be the same as mid day. The body works differently when tired and when just getting started. I have seen production records for some factories and it's amazing how when they came back to work after a lengthy shut down that production of items that passed QC was less than 50%. I would say that judging a piece's maker by it's base can be tricky but still needs to be considered. Faceting can be the same way. I have faceted quite a few weights that I made due to the fact that there may have been a slight surface flaw on top and when faceted it was totally removed and did not do anything but enhance the beauty of the weight itself.

[KevinH]

Bob, (and others) in case you had not seen what happened to the other message about 1. Helping the Board and 2. Italian glass terms etc., I have created two separate messages from the original and placed the Helping GMB message in the Cafe, and the Glass Terms message in the general Glass forum (http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,57355.0.html)