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Author Topic: Kralik or other? Maybe Loetz?  (Read 541 times)

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Offline sdelzer71

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Kralik or other? Maybe Loetz?
« on: August 01, 2014, 03:12:58 AM »
Hello again, another post of the antiques I inherited, which need to be verified and valuated for insurance purposes. I believe one is Threaded Kralik , but stumped on the other vase and globe.  Also some other vases which I have some idea but want a second opinion.

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Offline chopin-liszt

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Re: Kralik or other? Maybe Loetz?
« Reply #1 on: August 01, 2014, 04:20:05 PM »
 :)

Can we ask you to make a new thread for each piece, pretty please?

You do seem to have inherited some quite good stuff, each piece deserves its own thread and discussion, (which can get out of hand and difficult to follow if folk are trying to discuss several bits all in the same place).

It also keeps all our records straight for future reference.
Don't worry about it - you're new and a moderator will help out behind the scenes to get this sorted. 8)

I suspect your globe might be a lampshade.
Cheers, Sue M. (she/her)

Earth without art is just eh.

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Offline sdelzer71

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Re: Kralik or other? Maybe Loetz?
« Reply #2 on: August 01, 2014, 04:38:03 PM »
Oh, ok thanks chopin-liszt, I will remember that for future reference. I thought maybe they might be all the same studio, but I hear they might be several different ones.
Yes, my wife and I have inherited several items (100's) from her Grandmother. She was an antique collector, but we feel she may have got taken of a few of the pieces so were trying to get the valuation to settle her estate and for insurance. She only had one thing appraised, which was told to be a Letter Box belonging to Marie Antoinette, but doing some research, I have found 2 other examples, and no reference to belonging to her. I have attached a picture of it here if anyone wants to take a stab at it. Were still waiting for the paperwork from her attorney.

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Offline chopin-liszt

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Re: Kralik or other? Maybe Loetz?
« Reply #3 on: August 01, 2014, 04:48:16 PM »
That's mostly metal and ceramic, not glass. (we don't really count the glaze as glass if it's on something else)
There is a "potty board", a sister one to this one for glass, I'm sure somebody will have a link to it and you can ask about that there.

Inheriting stuff and trying to find out about it, is when got me into collecting glass - watch out, you could become addicted yourself!
Cheers, Sue M. (she/her)

Earth without art is just eh.

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Offline kimo

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Re: Kralik or other? Maybe Loetz?
« Reply #4 on: August 02, 2014, 02:07:00 PM »
"Values" are a very slippery and hard to pin down thing.  For example, the same object will have vastly different values for its insurance value, its value if sold by a fancy store specializing in the kind of item such as one on Rodeo Drive in Beverly Hills or 5th Avenue in New York, and that would be vastly different if it were Mary's Antique and Flea Market Store on Main Street, USA, and that would be vastly different that its auction value in a fancy auction like Christies, and that would be very different than an auction at the Acme Bargain Auction Barn in Anytown, USA, and that would be vastly different if it were being sold to a dealer, and so on.  It is not unlikely that the same object that would be valued for $1,000 in a fancy shop with a wealthy clientele but would only be valued at $100 if being sold to a dealer.  Or that same item could wind up with an insurance appraisal of $2,000 since insurance appraisals are always the highest (usually 50% to 100% higher).

Estate appraisals provide an even different kind of valuation, which are typically lower than insurance appraisals.  Since you have many very nice things, my strong suggestion would be to find a good estate appraiser in your city or state and have them do the appraisals.  Yes, it will cost you some money for their service, but it will be something that will stand up to probate, the tax man, and any other heirs if the property is being divided and this is especially important where there are nice things involved.

One additional thought.  As to the object that "belonged to Marie Antoinette" you should go on the assumption that it did not.  Unless there is very convincing proof - not just family stories or notes from family members or notes from a dealer who sold it to you or such, but actual uncontestable proof that would satisfy anyone who might doubt you should go on the assumption that it did not belong to someone famous and it has no added value because of it.  If everything that is purported to have belonged to Marie Antoinette or George Washington or Queen so and so, or any other famous person actually did belong to them they would have needed vast warehouses to hold it all which of course was not the case.  Such family stories and myths grow with the telling over the years - kind of like the party game called telephone where one person whispers something into the ear of the person next to them, and they in turn whisper what they heard to the person next the them and on down the line, and the last person announces what they heard to all followed by the first person who started it announcing what they really said, then everyone has a good laugh at how different the two were.   

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Offline chopin-liszt

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Re: Kralik or other? Maybe Loetz?
« Reply #5 on: August 02, 2014, 02:33:59 PM »
 :)
That's a lot of very good advice.
Cheers, Sue M. (she/her)

Earth without art is just eh.

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Offline sdelzer71

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Re: Kralik or other? Maybe Loetz?
« Reply #6 on: August 02, 2014, 06:38:48 PM »
Thanks KIMO for the advice. I was just going to get it insured under my existing homeowners policy, Just wanted to make sure I had enough to be valuable. I believe we do have paperwork from Bonhams in San Francisco which authenticated the box, just waiting for the attorney to mail them to us. It was appraised at over $20,000 which was 10 years ago.  I believe it has since gone up. I could be wrong though. The other two pieces I did find out that the bronze statue of Goddess Hebe and the Eagle of Jupiter are museum pieces. I see reproductions of them a lot smaller (12-18") of cod cast resin made to look like bronze. This one is 30" tall and has been tested by a jewelry expert to be bronze. But I cannot find any valuation since all the other pieces are in museums......The porcelain piece was purchased in Italy, stamped on the bottom Works of Art No.2612 Made in Italy. I did a google search and didnt see any matches. I will post the picture in the appropriate forum page and see if anyone can help. Thanks again

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Offline kimo

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Re: Kralik or other? Maybe Loetz?
« Reply #7 on: August 02, 2014, 11:36:10 PM »
That is a start, but buying from a well known auction house is not provenance.  You should get the original provenance on which Bonham's based their description proving to them that it was actually owned and used by Marie Antoinette and then tracking it down through time to their sale. 

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