Topic: Georgian Wrythen twist ale glass? help please.

[brucebanner]

The second i think old piece of glass i have found over the last couple of days,  hovering on the 10 pence shelf, a double knop wrythen twist ale glass, i think this might be Georgian ?. I have looked through 3 books and the net today and can not  find nothing that exactly matches.

It's 6 1/4 inches in height, 2 1/2 inches across the rim and 2 1/4 inches across the base.

It looks like it was made yesterday, black particles in the stem ,snapped pontil to the base.

Thanks as always.

[Antwerp1954]

The bowl looks second half of 18th century whilst the stem and foot are reminescent of 1820-50(?). Have you had it under uv? Dare I suggest two pieces glued/welded together? Just a thought!

[Paul S.]

I would agree..........    Wrythen decoration on bowls - apart from some jellies and Monteiths  -  seems only to have been on ales with rudimentary stems.         The bladed knop, placed centrally, does not occur together with this sort of bowl, and in any event not prior to c. 1800.

Possibly a much later copy simply combining a couple of historic features to give the appearance of age.

[brucebanner]

It glows green all the way through with uv light and its all one piece fused together no sign of a join or glue. The same black seeds are in the stem and bowl. The bowl looks does look better made than the base, would that be possible to reheat and old broken glass and put a new base on with out it shattering?. The stem is a bit on the wonkey side.

[Paul S.]

your pic No. 140 is good quality, and blows up without loss of definition and shows very clear details of the stem.        Going by the stem only there does seem to be an indication of genuine age, but think the answer to your question is probably that it's not viable.

Since it's not possible to know the origin of this glass, then have to remember to take into account differing styles of Continent and U.K., although there is no doubt that despite the configuration of the stem this is definitely an ale glass - funnels and trumpets with wrythen bowls of this size always seem to be.
I've just looked through Stephen Parry's 'DWARF ALE GLASSES and their Victorian Sucessors' also had  look at 'English Drinking Glasses' by Ronald Gabriel  -  and finding wrythen, ale-shaped bowls, with stems such as this one, is difficult, so presumably unusual combination.
Ale glasses with stems similar to this one are almost always accompanied by engraved bowls showing the usual hops, ears of barley etc., not wrythen decoration.

The only example I can find is in Gabriel and even that has only the quite common partial wrythen, which stops short of the rim by some distance, and is credited with a date of c. 1820, so if pushed I'd suggest this is as good a date idea as any other guess for this glass - perhaps a little later.

Perhaps this one is Continental.             Typical British wrythen ales on rudimentary stems, and dating to middle third C18 (without folded feet), are mostly good lead glass and ring well.

[brucebanner]

I think this one Paul is similar to the glass your describing in Gabriel the twist stops just short of the rim on one side and half way down on the opposite side, it does ring for an age unlike the one i put in the original post, which does ring but not as long. I  would think the size and shape of glass would have something to do with this. There must be at sometime a gradual change between shapes old mixing with the new.

It's 5 inches in height, 2 3/4 inches across the rim and base.

[Paul S.]

yes, similar to the example in Gabriel.

Regret no idea why wrythen decoration stopped  -  it looks attractive  -  although just possible it may have served a purpose similar to purling on the lower portions of wine/cider glasses and was the reasoning behind the hollow stems of champers flutes/saucers.        Clearing the sediment from some beverages took some time to get right and the story is that purling hid the lees from view  -  I should think that some of the C18 ales were a bit murky.
You could be right about the mixing of styles.

If it is genuine then a great find for £0.10