Topic: Delicate Wine Glass, Engraved Design with Applied Ruby Panel & Gilt Coat Of Arms

[flying free]

So unless it is a double walled becher or double walled goblet  then the term Zwischengold can not be used as a descriptor of the piece?
And the auction houses are incorrect to describe the medallion pieces as  e.g. 'Goblet with Zwischengold medallion'.  They should just be 'Goblet with inset medallion'?

Just to have correct information though, some of the medallion pieces have gold with the design scratched into the gold as the bechers do.  The ones that appear to be different to this are Peter's goblet with the flower and leaves (that is still on an inset medallion) and my salt.

m

[flying free]

Having done some more investigating and rereading a conservation document I'd found previously, my salt may not fall into this category (but still undecided) however I'm going to have to disagree about the Medallion glasses.

The Corning very specifically includes single walled glasses with a medallion here in their document regarding the conservation of Zwischengold glasses (see page 15).
http://www.cmog.org/sites/default/files/collections/85/8595D55B-378A-4400-91C2-B7D20E08F616.pdf

They also start this document with the following wording:

'T HE T E R M Zwischengoldglas refers to several
different types of eighteenth-century
glasses made in Austria and Bohemia.
Meaning literally "glass with gold between," it is
an apt description of both the way in which the
glasses were made and of the nature of their ornamentation.
These objects are characterized by
having been assembled from separate glass parts,
which were cemented together, and by metallic
gold and/or silver decorations sandwiched in between
the glass parts. '

I do feel my salt can be included in this.
m

[oldglassman]

 Hi ,
         I think we are getting a little bogged down here , yes Ivo is quite correct the "best" Zwischengold items are double walled vessels with a scratched decoration ,btw not all are in museums , the 1 below is gold and silver , however the term Zwischengold medallion is perfectly acceptable I believe when referring to an applied glass medallion which creates a double walled section on a bowl or a circular disc inserted in the foot,as found on most Zwischengold tumblers , My barrel has the typical scratched decoration as in double walled vessels and the wine glass has gold filled engraving but is still a gold sandwich, maybe the engraved examples should like some cameo glass be referred to as pseudo Zwischengold ??,

  cheers ,
              Peter

[flying free]

I'm not getting bogged down.  But it's a discussion that has come up before and I felt needed clarifying. 
You read my mind re the Cameo point 
That article makes very interesting reading - particularly about the best way to store the glasses.
I'm also very curious to know what the green pigment is in the backing to my salt.  It's made in the same way as the red pigments i.e. with tiny coloured bits floating in a clear vehicle.  In the case of the red it seems from their investigations that it is 'probably rose madder'.  I wonder what  the green is.
m

[RoyJ99]

Wow such a learning curve, really enjoying the discussion.

Just to clarify, one my glass the medallion is definitely gold leaf between two layers of ruby glass with the "Arms" scratched out. Under a loupe you can actually see a few small wrinkles in the gold leaf in places. I worked as a chef for years and used gold leaf a couple of times and remember how difficult it actually is to smooth down.

[MatW]

Hi, I just now saw your question concerning the coat of arms. Maybe you already got the answer from the auction house. If not, it is that of "Kursachsen", here on another piece of glass: http://www.auctions-fischer.de/kataloge/online-kataloge/210-europaeisches-glas-studioglas.html?kategorie=99&artikel=26386&cHash=e883f63d89 . Here some information on Kursachsen: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electorate_of_Saxony .

[RoyJ99]

Uncanny timing, I have literally just sent an email to the auction house asking about the "arms". Thank you kindly for the information.