Topic: Ercole Barovier vases date needed

[Trevor W]

Hi All. I'm a new member and this is my first post.
I have two Ercole Barovier Spuma Di Mare vases and would like any other info you may be able to give me such as likely date or any comments on them. What are the black inclusions. Metal filings?
Any thoughts please. Thanks. Trevor.

[rocco]

Hi Trevor, welcome to the board!

Do you have any reference for the Barovier attribution?
(The "Spuma di mare" pieces I saw online seem different).

Your vases remind me a lot of those nice bubbly pieces with black inclusions and iridescent finish by a yet unknown Romanian maker:
>> http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,49494.0.html

I don't know how the bases of your vases are finished, those others have a quite distinctive ground (but not polished) base.
I may be totally wrong, though...

Michael

[Trevor W]

Hi Michael. Many thanks for your reply.
The vases were purchased from Tremayne Applied Arts, St. Ives in 1999 as Ercole Barovier from the collection of Alan Carter.
The vase in your link does appear to have the same black inclusions and like the description I can feel the bubble texture on the inside. The outside is a deep clear casing and the patches of gold and silver iridescence give it a semi silvered look under reflected light. With backlight the bubbles appear more strongly.
I had seen a vase which was close here
http://www.antiquehelper.com/item/326280#sthash.OqjvCQzB.dpuf
but your example is closer.
The bases are indeed ground without polishing, the tall one has a reference mark. Pics attached.
Thanks again, Trevor

[rocco]

Hi Trevor,
thank you for providing the base pics!
I am very sorry that I cannot bring any good news, but IMHO no top Murano factory would finish their pieces off with that kind of roughly ground base.

Both your lovely vases look like they come from that Romanian maker mentioned in the other thread.
I cannot find any more pieces online atm, but I have seen a few over the years, also in similar shape to your vases. They come in different colours (I saw a beautiful yellow one a few years ago), but the iridescence, the bubbles plus black inclusions, and the matte base are quite distinctive.

Unfortunately, antiques dealers and even reputable auction houses frequently get attributions wrong

The one you linked to on antiquehelper seems quite different to yours, but even for that one I would like to see the provenance (or at least a confirmed piece in the exact same technique).

Michael

[Trevor W]

Hi Michael.
Thanks for you help. I wonder if we'll ever know the maker.
Trevor.

[chopin-liszt]

Hi Trevor, I got your message. 
I hadn't read this thread, because I know nothing about Italian glass.
Unfortunately, somebody has substituted a swiss cheese for my brain in recent years and I cannot remember where the "unknown, but Romanian maker" attribution came from for these quite distinctive pieces.
I haven't seen any popping up for quite a long time.
Something in the recesses of that cheese is suggesting it might have come from Frank's encyclopoedia of a mind.

[glassobsessed]

no top Murano factory would finish their pieces off with that kind of roughly ground base.

You may not wish to include AVeM in the top category but they often left bases ground and unpolished even on the Anse Volante vases.

John

[Pinkspoons]

Seguso SVdA and Gino Cenedese were also wont to leave the bases of some items - usually scavo-finished - roughly ground. Sometimes fairly crudely.

[Trevor W]

Hi Sue. Thanks for taking the trouble to reply.
Who is Frank. Is he a glass messages member?
Thanks, Trevor.

[rocco]

My statement was probably too apodictic
Murano glass is such a wide area...
On the other hand, my first thought when seeing a base finish like that wouldn't be "top Murano"

@John: I only ever saw 3 AVeM "anse volante" pieces live, and they all had properly polished bases.
Even in the mass produced tutti frutti range, only the dainty toothpick holders and small vases seem to come with unpolished bases; all bowls I have seen so far, and my big vase have a nicely finished base.

@Nic: to find a roughly ground base on a "Scavo" piece wouldn't surprise me that much.
My SVdA pieces have the most elaborate base finish in all my collection.
Can you show me a crude finish on a non-Scavo piece?

@Trevor: Frank is one of the most knowledgable glass people, and a member on this board (nickname "Frank"): >> Link to his profile page
So obviously opinions differ, and as I said I may be wrong.
I am curious if we find out more about the maker of these pieces...

Michael