Topic: clear funnel-mouthed bottle with rigaree

[Paul S.]

date wise somewhere around 1880 - 1890 I'd have thought  -  noticeable wear inside the neck a little above the narrow point - might this be from a stopper of sorts?
Some crimped frill around the neck with much dirt that can be seen in the folds -  with pincered rigaree down one side only  -  and a two level polished depression on the base (bit unusual I thought).                  About 6" (150 mm) tall.

Clueless really - might it be a single wine server for the table.             Possibly Continental rather than British, but only guessing.         thanks for looking.

[Paul S.]

the attached picture shows a funnel mouthed flask decanter currently in the V. & A. glass gallery  -  theirs appears to be something like 50% larger than the one posted, but in most respects is identical to the example here  -  neither piece has a stopper, although as mentioned, mine does have internal wear within the neck area.             Apologies for the 'busyness' of the image  -  I doubt they'd clear the cabinet just for me to photograph one piece.
The museum caption states  ... "dates to 1870 - 1910 - probably from London and made by Powell and was part of a bequest from Barbara Morris", and is included together with other Arts & Crafts pieces - Clutha etc.
Not suggesting this one IS Powell, but obviously very A. & C., and if nothing else good to know that we can make a comparison for reference purposes. 

[oldglassman]

Hi ,
            Leather flask decanters I think the are called and attributed to Powell as far as I know , I don't think there have been copies made but could be wrong ,

cheers ,

Peter.

[nigelbenson]

Also made by Stuart and Strombergshyttan............

Needs a lot of work to pin each down to a maker. Although Powell and Stuart both have 'touch' pieces to help us identify some of the examples.

Cheers, Nigel

[Paul S.]

not all of my thoughts correct, then.                    Thanks to both Peter and Nigel for their informative input.

If you do get the time Nigel, in the coming days, would be interested if you able to elaborate on your comments about 'touch pieces'  -  many thanks.

[Marc1976]

Oval base? Strombergshyttan??

[Paul S.]

rather late in the day have just seen this piece in Barbara Morris' book 'Victorian Table Glass and Ornaments'.       Morris says............ 
""'Leather bottle decanter of clear glass with trailed and pincered decoration.         Made by many firms in the late 19th century.   h. 8 in.  Victoria & Albert museum"".               No positive mention of Powell's name however.

In her book, Morris quotes Dresser's own words where he speaks of his principles regarding good design, part of which reads......    ""......if we take a flask and flatten its base, and extend the upper part of the neck slightly into the form of a funnel, we have all that is required of a decanter, with the exception of a permanent cork, which is a stopper.............""  etc.                             
There is more, but thought I'd quote that part as it seemed to relate especially to the shape of this 'leather bottle' decanter.

The chapter on Aesthetic Glass is very interesting, and speaks a lot about Webb (Philip), Morris (William), Powell etc. during the Arts and Crafts last quarter of the C19............   but it's a little unfortunate perhaps that, in her book, Morris doesn't quite seem to nail this flask shape to Powell specifically, at least the book attribution lacks the glass gallery decisiveness   -   perhaps I've not understood her text correctly.

[nigelbenson]

In answer to Paul's request about 'touch pieces':

Really very straightforward; it's buying, and holding onto, a known piece from a given company or maker to use as a guide/comparison to others that you might later buy. If all the characteristics match then it it is reasonable to suggest that the new piece is also from the same company/maker. Although, you have to be very strict with yourself to not persuade yourself something is what in fact it ain't.

In effect pretty well all collectors are doing it all the time without necessarily realising.

I guess I do it to learn, particularly about more obscure companies. For instance I bought a wonderful piece of Arculus recently. It is known through one of the photographs in Charles Hajdamach's 20th Century British Glass. Not only will it help me determine the characteristics of that company, but it may help with comparing to Walsh Walsh 'Pompeian' pieces to discern any differences.

I've done this for many years, and found it particularly useful to understand early Powell Arts & Crafts glass before both the books and exhibitions of the mid/late 1990's

If you're lucky the 'touch piece' is cheap, but in order to learn it is always worth pushing the boat out IMHO   

PS. The Arculus piece is a different colour to those shown in Charles's book, which I guess helped ........ who really wants brown?? I'm hoping it will help with some unknowns on that big 'shelf' that we all seem to have!!

Hope that answers the question, Cheers, Nigel

[nigelbenson]

When I have time I will look through Barbara's notes for the book you mention Paul, to see if there are other examples that she was aware of and by whom. (I bought her glass archive when it came up for sale a few years back) 

Yes oval bases are correct for Strombergshyttan, however not necessarily synonymous.

Cheers, Nigel 

[Paul S.]

many thanks Nigel  -  interesting to learn of this method of providing what should be almost foolproof attribution for later similar pieces, and as you say we all do it to some extent since comparisons are the natural way of learning.              The obvious danger possibly being from the copyists who forge to deceive.

Wait to hear some time if you do find anything additional in your Barbara Morris archive -  thanks.