Topic: Sweetmeat date I'd?

[bat20]

Another glass from yesterday morning,it stands 9cm ht and is well leaded with a nice ring,the stem is hollow and the foot surprisingly wide,you can feel wear to the rim of the foot,the ferns seem fairly well done and I'm guessing 1890ish but could be well out,any thoughts?thanks.

[Paul S.]

whether rightly or wrongly I seem to have some notion of calling these very shallow pieces as comports, at least in the U.K. - though not too sure what you put in a comport.
You could be right with your date, but think recently Chris had commented that ferny decoration extended some way into the C20, although until recently most of us would put similar engraving as c. last quarter of the C19.

[bat20]

Thanks,do you know if this type of stem could be used for dating purposes or was it used for a very long period.

[Paul S.]

unlikely to be a reliable method - there are many variables involved, and risky dating by the stem only.             Hollow stems do occur from very early times onwards on a variety of shapes, and often on large items like footed salvers that with a solid stem would have been excessively heavy, and during the glass tax years might have been uneconomical.                   
But this is a lightweight and obviously inexpensive Victorian piece, which can be dated adequately by general shape and the Pteridomania decoration.

If you look in Silber & Fleming - excluding the pressed comports and sugars that had solid stems - this shape of comport occurs quite commonly.

All we need is something similar to S. & F. for the period 1750 - 1850

[bat20]

I guess publishers are always looking at how big the market is for niche books,is this called a hollow stem Paul,trawling through the intoe I've seen it described as a trapped air stem although that could be nonsense,I've also seen this type of egg timer shape on late Victorian/Edwardian drinking glasses.

[Paul S.]

it may have some particular name, but for me it's just a hollow stem.                       Someone can correct me, but have an idea it's made by indenting  the first gather of glass (with something pointed) in order to create a hollow in the gather, and then quickly picking up another smaller gather which is wrapped around the first one.                 As the air in the bubble gets hotter so the cavity expands in size so making the gather hollow, and the gather is then manipulated into whatever shape is required (or attached to the bowl and then manipulated into shape).
Of course the air is strapped, so yes, that is as good a name as any other, and you're correct about seeing this on some drinking glasses.

You might try some of the books on table glass - not a great deal on this sort of item - but then that probably reflects the low key interest.

[bat20]

Yes I've been trying to find books on drinking glasses after 1800 until now I suppose,know of any good ones?

[Paul S.]

we're a bit short on books in this area.............      collectors tend to lose interest after the British Regency (1830), which is roughly when greater mechanization and pressed glass begins, so there's not a lot been written/published for 1820 onwards.

Stephen Parry's "Dwarf Ale Glasses and their Victorian Successors"  -  really only a booklet, but very useful.
John A. Brooks "Glass Tumblers 1700 - 1900"  -  likewise another booklet, but interesting and helpful.
and there's some info. in Ronald Gabriel's "English Drinking Glasses" - but it's rather meagre with details and again only a small volume.

Here is a note Ivo posted some while back, with details of the Danish publication - but the other items he mentions may not be suitable for the period you mention.

""The best reference for styles and shapes for me is "Dansk Glas 1825-1925" - except it is in Danish which will do you no good at all (I tell you it's a struggle). Then there are the rather expensive tomes of "The Glass Industry at Sandwich" - with a lot of overlap into areas of lesser interest (such as pressglass). Both these books research the historical production of a specific glass industry, and will show specific examples which can be interpreted as generic ones, too. But at least they contain the humbler items.
As you found out, as soon as someone highlights fancy glass you get selected examples. "Investing in Georgian Glass" by Ward Lloyd (1969!) is not bad - but leaf through it first and don't overpay.""

Perhaps others might know of better books.

[bat20]

Thanks Paul,I've got the quite a few for pre 1800 and I get the feeling it may be a matter of getting books on individual well known companies hoping for a chapter or two on glasses.