Topic: Does anyone recognise the maker's mark (etched) =S=

[catshome]

Hi,  I have 3 crystal glasses and I'd like to try and match them but I've failed to find this maker's mark.  It's etched, and is literally a capital S between two equals signs.  =S=  Anyone recognise it?  Many thanks Cat

[Mike M]

99% certain Stuart

Somewhere I read it was a mark they used for certain department stores etc when the store didn't want someone else's name on the goods!

I have some enamelled pieces which are 100% certain Stuart, bearing such a mark.

cheers

Mike

[catshome]

Mike,
Thank you, you are brilliant!  I have now established that they are Stuart Dorset Sherry glasses (big bowls for a sherry glasses in my experience), and that I can't afford the missing 3!

Thanks again
Kind regards
Cat

[Bernard C]

Cat β€” Mike was correct, but the attribution is much more interesting than just a department store.

You are fortunate in owning what I believe to be the most romantic English glass collectable.   The mark is actually an "S" over a Plimsoll Line, painted on the side of ships to ensure that the ship is properly laden.    The "S" was the mark of John Stonier & Co. of Liverpool, principal wholesalers to the shipping lines, including the White Star line, and is found on glass and china, and possibly on other goods.    I believe that Stoniers was also a Liverpool department store.

All the examples I have seen have been on Stuart uncoloured cut lead crystal, but you cannot assume this, as Stoniers could have sourced from other glassworks.     There are at least two versions of the mark, one with a thick curly "S" and another with a thinner, more angular "S" with hints of corners.   I think the second of these could be the later.    Obviously, as it is acid-etched, the mark was applied at the glassworks.

While we know the mark was used on stemware and tableware used on board, we don't really know whether it was used on glass souvenirs sold on board, but I believe this also to be true.

So, what you have is glass either kept or bought on board an ocean liner as a souvenir of a voyage, or as a gift.

It is the easiest glass in the world to sell with all the romantic connotations, but not easy to find.   I've not found any for over a year.

While I have no objection to anyone using this information, acknowledgement would be appreciated.

Bernard C.  

[catshome]

Bernard, I think I want to marry you and have your children.............there is something about a man who knows so much about something I'm particularly interested in................

On a more cautionary note.............your descriptions practically had me describing them as the glasses that almost went down with the Titanic but the lorry was late getting to the docks!

They have a curvy "S", and I assume they could have been sold in a store rather than on a ship so it makes it a little difficult to use the romantic connection as an absolute certainty.

Thank you for taking the time to give me so much information.  I will of course give full credit if I decide to sell them and quote the information in anyway on a public forum.

Kindest regards
Cat

[Bernard C]

... I assume they could have been sold in a store rather than on a ship so it makes it a little difficult to use the romantic connection as an absolute certainty. ...

If you Google Stonier Liverpool and look at the huge quantities of glass and other goods that went through their hands as wholesalers to the shipping lines compared with what just one of several Liverpool department stores could possibly sell, you will see that the odds against your glasses having been bought in the store are so small as not to be worth considering.   Stonier's wholesale turnover of cut glass stem-, table- and souvenir-ware must have been in excess of 100 times their retail turnover; indeed a figure of 1000 times would not surprise me.    Your glasses have been on a real genuine ocean liner.   No question at all.

As for dating, the Titanic is rather early.   Around late 1920s at the earliest for your glasses.    The glassware on the Titanic was unmarked or etched with a White Star line mark.

As for your generous offer, you will have to open negotiations with my OH :!:  :lol:

Bernard C.  

[Bernard C]

Cat β€” I've been discussing this topic with my OH, Janet, and she recalls both powder puffs and candlesticks carrying the Stonier mark, strong evidence that the glass sold in the souvenir / gift shops on board ocean liners was also marked in this way.

Note the unusual lack of the word ENGLAND.   Firstly this indicates that the glass was not retailed in the USA, and secondly it confirms that the glass was bought (or otherwise acquired) on board the liner, presumably a duty-free zone.   I cannot help wondering whether such purchases up to some limit of value were exempt from either British or American customs duty, and that this was the mark's raison d'Γͺtre.   If so, then glass sold in Stonier's Liverpool store would have carried the conventional glasswork's mark.

Just speculating .........

Is there any member who knows about customs duties on either side of the Atlantic during this period?

Bernard C.  

[Frank]

The UK side is given here http://www.xs4all.nl/~patto1ro/ukstats.htm#duty

Although it is regarding beer, look at the April 1920 entry. It would seem likely that similar changes were being made across the board. The Great War to be paid for and general economic collapse was a feature of the 1920's, except for lighbulbs which got progressively cheaper throughout the 20's.

[BJB]

Hi,

I have just found this today, a sort of vase with both engraving, little dots and leaves on trees, and acid etching, birds and trees. But it to has the =S= (and a ) STUART mark on the base

http://i8.tinypic.com/24vp475.jpg

So this might have been the gift ware sold on board the ships. Can't see it being used on the dinner table  

[Frank]

The "=S=" was the mark of John Stonier & Co. of Liverpool, principal wholesalers to the shipping lines, including the White Star line, and is found on glass and china, and possibly on other goods.    I believe that Stoniers was also a Liverpool department store.

All the examples I have seen have been on Stuart uncoloured cut lead crystal, but you cannot assume this, as Stoniers could have sourced from other glassworks.