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Author Topic: Chalcedony (?) handled vessel  (Read 2896 times)

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Offline flying free

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Re: Chalcedony (?) handled vessel
« Reply #10 on: December 19, 2015, 08:04:17 PM »
See my pics and photos in the post above this and also

18th century Chalcedony set also here (think this is from the Corning)
https://www.flickr.com/photos/unforth/3276849897/


and here another that shows the transparency a little better. 
https://www.flickr.com/photos/unforth/3276849673/in/photostream/

edited to add -
oh the irony, oh the ignominy

This link states that Chalcedony was opaque glass ....
http://museovetro.visitmuve.it/en/il-museo/layout-and-collections/glass-18th-century/

quote
'THE PLEASURE OF IMITATION: CHALCEDONY AND “LATTIMO” IN THE EIGHTEENTH AND NINETEENTH CENTURY Created so they looked like different materials, various kinds of ‘imitation’ glass were very appreciated in the eighteenth century. Examples include opaline glass, which looked like opal; opaque white glass, called “lattimo” (from the word for milk “latte”), which looked like porcelain and chalcedony, a variegated opaque glass with multicoloured veining, which looked like semi-precious stones such as banded agate, onyx, malachite and lapis lazuli. Known already in the Roman age, chalcedony glass appeared in Murano during the Renaissance; it was made by mixing the remains of white, coloured or opal glass and crystal and adding different mixtures of substances once fused (such as copper, silver, cobalt, etc.) which resulted in its multicoloured veining. At times, from the seventeenth century on, aventurine fragments were also added, resulting in further patches or streaks, for example in the two-handled eighteenth-century cup on display here. The “secret” of chalcedony was lost at the end of the century and it was not until the middle of the nineteenth century that it was revived; this was thanks to Lorenzo Radi who, in 1856, developed the same sixteenth-century composition, creating objects with simple, linear forms of the greatest effect owing to their vast chromatic range of the veining.'

http://museovetro.visitmuve.it/en/il-museo/layout-and-collections/glass-18th-century/

... But I'm telling you absolutely, that the photos I have uploaded are transparent glass.  The only reason they appear opaque is because the light reflects off the glass in the photos. Close up, in person, you can see through them.

According to that link
 ' ... this was thanks to Lorenzo Radi who, in 1856, developed the same sixteenth-century composition, creating objects with simple, linear forms of the greatest effect owing to their vast chromatic range of the veining.'
I'm busily trying to hunt down a definite Lorenzo Radi piece because the two pieces I have seen id'd as his (look thick and very opaque) don't appear to be the same composition or effect as those 18th century pieces I have linked to. 
m

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Offline Ivo

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Re: Chalcedony (?) handled vessel
« Reply #11 on: December 19, 2015, 08:30:58 PM »
I have a chalcedony gass from the west bank and yes it is partly transparent - like the stone it imitates. ..  Ttbomk chalcedony glass is not fully opaque.

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Offline flying free

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Re: Chalcedony (?) handled vessel
« Reply #12 on: December 19, 2015, 08:35:35 PM »
I don't think the two pieces I've found id'd as Lorenzo Radi (mid 19th century) look anything like the earlier (18th century) Chalcedony / Calcedonio pieces I've linked to. 
Off to try and find examples of Lorenzo Radi pieces in a museum collection for comparison.

Ivo, it is isn't it?  it's one of the few times I've seen a piece of glass in the flesh and been properly shocked at how different it looks to what I had in my mind from photographs.
The other time was in the same museum looking at a glass lemon made in the 1700s - I found it extremely hard to believe it wasn't made in late 19th or 1960s or something.  ( I was playing a game, guessing descriptions and id's/dates before looking at the descriptions  ;D )
m

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Offline Ivo

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Re: Chalcedony (?) handled vessel
« Reply #13 on: December 19, 2015, 08:37:54 PM »
I'd love to send you a pic but I'm up north and not near my glass. 

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Offline flying free

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Re: Chalcedony (?) handled vessel
« Reply #14 on: December 19, 2015, 08:47:03 PM »
I think you've up loaded here on the board somewhere.
I'll have a look through.
m

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Offline glassobsessed

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Re: Chalcedony (?) handled vessel
« Reply #15 on: December 19, 2015, 09:21:26 PM »
Another example, the urn is big and even the quite thick glass here is not entirely opaque: http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,57145.msg323861.html#msg323861

The third photo of this little thinly blown vase (from West Bank) shows it well: http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,53544.0.html
John

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Offline flying free

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Re: Chalcedony (?) handled vessel
« Reply #16 on: December 19, 2015, 09:32:12 PM »
The mind does funny things doesn't it?  your 'thinly' blown Hebron glass looks thick to me.  I would have assumed thick and heavy partly because of the rounded doughnut type foot I guess and the way the rim looks thick.

And that is one of the reasons why I ask for weight when describing glass, as well as height and width etc.
As soon as I know the weight I have a much better picture in my head of the type of glass it might feel when held in person.

m

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Offline flying free

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Re: Chalcedony (?) handled vessel
« Reply #17 on: December 19, 2015, 09:43:23 PM »
There is a v large collection of Lorenzo Radi pieces here
http://www.archiviodellacomunicazione.it/Sicap/list/any:radi/page:4/?WEB=MuseiVE
page 1,2,3,4..14 (14 pages)

They look like the swirly Chalcedony pieces I photographed in the museum but in the Museo del Vetro pictures they do look opaque.  I have never seen one in real life , but if you look at the piece at the top of page 8,
http://www.archiviodellacomunicazione.it/Sicap/ENG/ArtWorks/293197/?WEB=MuseiVE

broken at the neck, you can see the transparency of the vase.

none look like this piece
https://www.pinterest.com/pin/493355334158052520/
which is what confused me. 
m

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Offline Pinkspoons

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Re: Chalcedony (?) handled vessel
« Reply #18 on: December 20, 2015, 02:36:26 PM »
Ttbomk chalcedony glass is not fully opaque.

My experience has mostly been the opposite. With the exception of one piece, all of the Muranese calcedonio I've owned - late 19th century, 1930s and 1990s - has been fully opaque.

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Offline rocco

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Re: Chalcedony (?) handled vessel
« Reply #19 on: January 09, 2016, 03:04:33 PM »
Sorry for the delayed reply.
Very interesting (and varying) information about chalcedony glass, thanks a lot.
Not much wiser regarding my humble pot, though ;)

Michael

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