Glass Discussion & Research. NO IDENTIFICATION REQUESTS here please. > France

Dating Sabino signatures?

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AdrianW:
I was wondering whether there's any way to date a piece of Sabino by the signature? For example, was there any change to the signatures when the US company took over in 1978?

I've had a quick search, both here and on Google; and I've found the relevant Glass Encyclopedia page here:
http://www.glassencyclopedia.com/Sabinoglass.html

Ignoring the signatures; it appears that the glass changed formulation around the end of WW2; and that makes sense to me. I think I can identify the difference if I can handle a piece, based on my experiences with other French opalescent glass - I think modern opalescent glass is harder and bluer than the old pieces. Unfortunately that doesn't help when looking at pictures online, as the white balance of images can be way off...

I suspect older pieces are probably more detailed (as the moulds wear out over time) but again, when looking at images online it can sometimes be hard to tell the difference between a blurry photograph, and a blurry object ;)

Anne Tique:
Hello Adrian,

Maybe I'm wrong, but because the old, original moulds are still used, as I'm sure you have read, I don't think that there's a difference re the signatures.  I've seen the engraved signatures and the pressed ones, and the only difference, to me, is the quality and finishing. The older ones are just more defined, as you've mentioned. I was in Mexico for work recently and I don't think I've ever seen that much of Sabino in one day, but every piece I've had in hand, felt and looked a bit rough and unfinished, visible and unpolished seams and as you say, without any detail in the moulding and was just not good enough to justify the price.

Therefor i think, the only way to be really sure is to handle the item in hand, from a picture it's more difficult but your gut instinct never lets you down.

AdrianW:
Hi Anne,

Thank you for your response :)

Most of the Sabino I've encountered has hand engraved signatures; so I was really hoping there might be a useful difference in those...

As you say, those moulds have been in use a long time!

I'm always amazed at how little information there seems to be online for so much of the 20th Century glass; it feels so recent, yet information can be non-existent at times.

Mosquito:
As a rule, the fine diamond point incised signature is earlier -- see below for an example from a pre-war vase 'Les Colombes' (Cat. no. 7005). Modern pieces tend to have a much broader engraved mark that looks like it's been done with a rotary tool.  I also have some older pieces with engraved marks, but the tip used is much finer than that seen on the newer pieces. Will post some more examples tomorrow.

Anne Tique:
Yes of course, sorry,  :-[ misunderstood the question, thought we were talking about a different shape or type of signature if the piece would be more recent.

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