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Author Topic: Vintage Glass Tumbler with embedded medal  (Read 1457 times)

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Offline Cpackjr

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Vintage Glass Tumbler with embedded medal
« on: May 12, 2016, 01:43:54 AM »
Found this glass with a medal embedded on it. I was intrigued by the medal but I think it must be a reproduction of the medal found here:

https://www.bundesbank.de/Navigatio...docId=340546¬First=true
[Mod: the link is an abbreviated version and is "Not Found"
Please see Misha's post below which provides the full url]


The glass is very heavy, has bubbles and no seams. The medal is glued into a blob of glass. The bottom is smooth with a deep dimple which is probably to smooth for a Pontil mark.
The medal is two sided and well made, 1 3/4 " .
Has anyone seen anything like this glass? Do you have approximate age?
Is it mass produced or rare, I can find no similar example.
The only thing even close to this item is shot glasses put out by some breweries with mounted medals depicting the place where the drink won an award.
Thanks,
Charles

Medal commemorating the St Anna mine near Freiberg

Medallist: Martin Heinrich Omeis (1651-1703)
Material: Silver
Weight: 231.0g
Diameter 80.8 mm

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Offline Lustrousstone

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Re: Vintage Glass Tumbler with embedded medal
« Reply #1 on: May 12, 2016, 09:30:22 AM »
Welcome to the board. It would be helpful if we could have a picture of the medal and of the base of the glass. You can post four pictures per answer

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Offline misha

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Re: Vintage Glass Tumbler with embedded medal
« Reply #2 on: May 12, 2016, 02:45:48 PM »
Can't advise anything about the glass as you ask. Not my field of interest in this type of glass really. Haven't come across any looking like this.

Re: The Medallion.

I've collected coins and medallions [true term for this piece], but not of this country or era. I have no interest in Service Medals, but same collectors rules apply.

Link provided comes up as a 404 error for me, but found this page using search terms of "St Anna mine"

 https://www.bundesbank.de/Redaktion/EN/Standardartikel/Bundesbank/Coin_and_banknote_collection/medal_portraying_the_mining.html?submit=Search&searchIssued=0&templateQueryString=St+Anna+mine&searchArchive=0&withoutTeaser=true

Thats a sizable medallion at 80.8mm diameter and 231g mass.
The web page does not state the alloy. If it's not a reproduction, due to low mintage it's value is far higher than pure silver if 999 grade [99.9%] anyway. Thats if it hasn't suffered wear or polish damage.

Very detailed die engraving on original specimens, even though rather large field to work on I must say. Nice.

DO NOT for any reason attempt any form of cleaning of coins. It will strip metal, detail and more so, huge value to a collector.
Not to offend, but Americans have had passion for cleaning coins through mechanical and chemical means for years. Someone before you has probably got to it and accordingly stripped detail and natural oxidised patina tone from it.  Chemical agents to 'restore' it will only do further damage.
Again, DO NOT CLEAN COINS OR MEDAL etc.
You will eventually deeply regret doing so.

You assume it's reproduction? Why?
Does that diameter correspond to what is adhered to the glass?
Unfortunately the De.Bank web site doesn't specify thickness nor edge treatment [could be plain, reeded, embossed or engraved]
The images are good though and show details like rim on faces of the disc.

You say it has die stamped detail both sides. 
This is not really something done for a piece intended for adhering to a glass like this.
Reputable mints that do reproductions would make it with a size difference or distinct modification to design like modern production date or makers mark, or omission of a face, to prevent it's use as forgery.
First step would be to check size.

DO NOT attempt to remove by mechanical means. 
From what you say I'm assuming you see it has been glued to glass?
It would not have been fused to molten glass. The heat involved would have oxidised surface and silver does not bond to glass well. Copper does.
What is the appearance of the adhesive used?   Clear epoxy type stuff?  Might have gone a yellow colour by now?

It appears to be a glue best bet would be soaking in serious solvent to slowly dissolve whats there. Again, do not leaver it off in any way.  Silver is soft, it will scratch with even tissue paper. 

If clearly a reproduction medal. it may be a lower class metal like pewter or pot metal alloy of aluminium... or a better copy would be in a silver alloy... perhaps, but not likely due to bullion prices 50% silver, lucky to be 80% or 92.5%.   

A coin dealer in Germany or maybe even America may be able to advise if there have been any contemporary reproductions of this medallion. They will also have an interest in Service Medals and Medallions. Submit good quality images for initial appraisal. DO NOT accept a Dealers value of it nor coins. They profit seek and the difference between 'buy' and 'sell' prices will disgust you.
If there is no known history of copies [and in any case for now] consider it would be far more valuable than the glass it's mounted in or the combination of glass/medallion.
It would require detailed 'in hand' examination of the item to determine 'grade' [how damaged it has suffered] and accordingly value if indications are it is indeed original minted. Age and Mintage of less than 100 makes it "excessively rare".

A jeweller would be able to give an idea of metal and purity BUT thats done via acid test so make sure they don't do so in conspicuous location.
DO NOT do this if initial indications are it could be original.

If in poor condition and reproduction of silver alloy... the bullion value can be calculated from 'spot price' of silver factoring in alloy [say 50%] and mass of 231g.   

If you post further images of Med. here make sure you use the camera on macro setting and get in real close with good diffused light. Sometimes better images can be obtained by high resolution scan [like you would a photo or document].

In terms of glass, photo of base showing characteristics you describe, the rim and the glass framing the metal would be most helpful for further assessment.
Sizes also help.


So it goes.

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Offline chopin-liszt

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Re: Vintage Glass Tumbler with embedded medal
« Reply #3 on: May 12, 2016, 03:19:40 PM »
I strongly suspect the 80.8mm and 231g refer to the entire glass plus the medallion, Misha. ;)
The OP says elswhere that the medally bit is 1 3/4", (I assume) diameter.
Cheers, Sue M. (she/her)

Earth without art is just eh.

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Offline misha

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Re: Vintage Glass Tumbler with embedded medal
« Reply #4 on: May 12, 2016, 05:21:17 PM »
Ohhh.... 1 3/4" .   whats that... about 44.5mm.

Didn't note that.

Naaa, the 88.8mm is size according to the German Bank records on this issue.

Read that very informative description again and it says original minted piece had edge embossed with text and date.   That sort of script appears on your 1 pound coins in UK.
Supposed to make counterfeiting difficult, but it doesn't.

So, I take that 1 3/4" as being Med. bit.    Doesn't seem to have concentric rim detail like original, but hard to tell from the image. 

It's scaled down size reproduction, still, the DO NOT clean applies. It's probably had surface treatment to add age patina and wouldn't look 'right' if bright and shiny.  If silver alloy it would suffer loss of detail.   
So it goes.

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Offline Cpackjr

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Re: Vintage Glass Tumbler with embedded medal
« Reply #5 on: May 13, 2016, 01:25:17 AM »
I am adding more pictures of the glass and medal.
Thanks All,
Charles

one picture is a rear view showing the back of the medal

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Offline Cpackjr

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Re: Vintage Glass Tumbler with embedded medal
« Reply #6 on: May 13, 2016, 01:25:55 AM »
I am adding more pictures of the glass and medal.
Thanks All,
Charles

View of bottom

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Offline bat20

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Re: Vintage Glass Tumbler with embedded medal
« Reply #7 on: May 13, 2016, 05:24:08 PM »
OMG!!..is that a hand coming out of a cloud...I can feel a twitch in my right eye starting up again.

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Offline bat20

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Re: Vintage Glass Tumbler with embedded medal
« Reply #8 on: May 13, 2016, 05:57:47 PM »
Interesting,anyone else getting miners of some sort?

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Offline bat20

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Re: Vintage Glass Tumbler with embedded medal
« Reply #9 on: May 13, 2016, 06:36:01 PM »
The word above the bridge could be menschenhandel??..something to do with slaves??

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