Topic: Cut Victorian wine glass?

[bat20]

Hi all,I found this small cut wine glass the other day thinking it maybe a Edwardian piece initially,but now I'm wondering if it maybe early Victorian.All the cutting is hand cut and sharp to the touch with good wear to the base,it's rather lovely to my mind with a 32 cut star on the base,R. Wilkinson dates 32 cuts to about 1840?,I don't know if that still holds true?any thoughts on this one...there are a few small stones etc.thanks for looking.

[Paul S.]

these things can be difficult to date  -  which is probably why they often get few replies.           The main problem with wines is the extent to which styles were copied over a long period of time plus the mixing of different period features on the same glass.

the 32 radial star can be c. 1840, but can equally be a much later copy, and sharp cutting can be found well into the early C20.            This cutting to me looks a bit too fiddly for early Victorian  -  there are wines with scale cutting on bowls and stems etc. from near that time, but this example appears perhaps too contrived in its looks, and I think your first thoughts of Edwardian are more likely to be correct.

I'm sure the cutting couldn't be anything other than hand cut  -  unlike some machine etching, I don't think there has been a mechanical method devised yet for producing such cut decoration as this, but there was certainly skill used on this glass  -  the cutting on the upper part of the knop looks very delicate.             Am sure it's not a drawn stem, probably a three part glass as usual, and the knop hides the join, and the cutting is a good feature.

Presumably it's lead glass - and wear might help to date as much as anything else.               Although it's not the same, it does have that slightly fussy look of Stuart's cut 'Beaconsfield design, which had it's origins c. 1907, apparently, making it an Edwardian invention.
Pity you don't have the other five - very nice glass though.

[bat20]

To get a reply is above the average for me Paul so thanks,it is very much lead glass ,standing 5" ht and 2.5" wd.You are probably right although it has good wear it may well be the last survivor of a much loved and used set,I think the slice cuts and thickness on the rim sowed a few seeds of doubt In my mind.I'm glad you like it I certainly do ,not least of all because of the craftsmanship,at first glance I didn't really see the work and then you realise the whole thing is cut apart from 1 cm from the top. Here's a photo from above

[bat20]

As an after thought I think the foot may have steered me a touch off course as well,it's as wide as the rim with a strong look.

[bat20]

Sorry ,another interesting comparison I've done is to put it along side a Richardson signed glass I have ,about 1920,with regancy cutting,I don't know if this makes much difference  ,but the foot is much stronger and the colour on this one has a more grey to yellow tone,the Richardson being much brighter altogether and the star cut on the foot is deeper.

[Paul S.]

may we please see the Richardson glass ....  would be interested to know your reasons for the date of c. 1920 - you may of course be spot on.         presumably it has a backstamp which includes the Union Flag?

[bat20]

Yes it has the Union Jack stamp,I looked it up on the great glass site where is says the stamp dates it to 1920,you problem know more about the dating time scales than me?I actually posted it some time ago on the British glass section ,for show I think?.If you can't find it let me know and I'll take some more.

[Paul S.]

yes, I've seen the reproductions of the Richardson mark on the Great Glass site, and I wouldn't presume to criticise that information, but some additional thoughts relating to such features, might be worth remembering.
There is perhaps justification for some leeway when attempting to use backstamps for dating  -  I think Bernard often mentioned we should be cautious in this matter - there are known pieces of marked Richardson glass that certainly slip into the early 1930's, although have to say that I'm not aware of a start date for their Union Flag mark  -  would be very interested to know if anyone has that info.

In Roger Dodsworth's (editor) 'BRITISH GLASS between the wars', he writes...........
""Glass Manufacturers tended to have a cavalier attitude to the marking of glass.       Often two trades names in quite different styles would be in use simultaneously, and no records would be kept of when new marks were introduced and for how long they we used.        Marks can therefore provide a rough guide to the age of a piece, but cannot be used for accurate dating.""

Some of the Stuart marks for example are well known for having been used over a long period of time.
However, far better to have a mark than not at all  -  scores on two levels  -  at least you know who made the thing, and it does give a rough indication of when.

Coming back to this wine, and having looked at a variety of pieces in C.H., it's quite possible that date wise it may well be later even that the Edwardian we have suggested.............    as we've said umpteen times, such unmarked pieces are notoriously difficult to pin an age on, although your comments about the sharpness of cutting would suggest pre 1920 ish.

[bat20]

Interesting,always learn something from your posts,I should add what looks like cross hatch cutting on top of the knop is infact a reflection in a continuation of the slice cuts to the Knop..hope that makes sense?yup the cutting is very sharp especially on the knop.

[bat20]

Comparing the two glasses again,the Richardson one is not only brighter but also has a lot less bits in it ,if any,the glass in question is fairly clean but does have the odd small bubble and tiny white stone here and there with a slightly larger one I've just noticed in the centre of the foot.