Topic: ? Edward Moore griffin/ swan vase

[mattschlan]

I have done a little research on this item and believe it may be an Edward Moore or Sowerby slag glass vase.

It has 3 chained griffins or swans on it and stands 17cm tall.
 
If i'm correct i understand these vases were made c1880.

The vase is in immaculate condition, and i find it hard to believe that it may be 120+ years old. Does anybody know if there have been more modern reproductions made of these vases?

Thanks

Matt

[mhgcgolfclub]

Hi

Looks good to me no modern reproduction that I know of. Even if there were reproductions they would not have the look of an 1880 one.

Roy

[Paul S.]

hello Matt.              You're quite right about most of your information.................       the last I knew was that these remained 'attributed' to Sowerby, but of course things may have changed since then.           They were made in almost every colour including jet, and those apart from jet are referred to usually as turquoise, blue, purple etc. marbled glass.           As far as I know none of them has a mark of any kind.    Date wise c. 1870 - 1875 is given most often.               It's not possible to be accurate in saying when any given piece might have been pressed, since moulds were used often for some years after the original design was created.

We've discussed these previously on the Board  -  if I can find the link I'll add for interest.        It's a very good find, and the condition may simply reflect the lack of use - this does happen.

I'd agree with Roy, I'm not aware of any reproductions of this particular design.

It seems that the attribution is now confirmed as Moore  -  see the details from Angela in this link........  http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,46854.msg263492.html#msg263492  ............    but no idea in what form the provenance was discovered.....    factory catalogue or advertisement etc.             I've not seen the book that Angela speaks of, perhaps we can have a quote from that?

[flying free]

this is from the V&A
http://collections.vam.ac.uk/item/O6582/vase-edward-moore-co/

Angela says here
http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,46854.msg276376.html#msg276376
'Yes you are right, I sent pictures to the curator of Glass - Angus McDonald, at South Shields Museum, he  has been writing a book about South Shields glass baron Edward Moore. He very kindly rang me and we had a long chat about this piece and he says it is by Moore.'
m

[Paul S.]

thanks m  -  I have seen all of that.....    my question was .........   in what form did the provenance come in order to arrive at the Moore attribution.
I'm not doubting the V.&A. or Angus McDonald  -  but it would be interesting, after all these years of the Sowerby suggestion, to know how we've arrived at Moore.

[mattschlan]

Thanks for all your input. Nice to know it's a genuine victorian vase and likely by Edward Moore. I'm very new to the world of glass collecting and finding it quite fascinating.

Matt

[flying free]

Sorry Paul,  I just thought I'd add the information on this thread in case someone happened upon it later.

I remember seeing this beautifully displayed at the V&A and wondering about it.
I think I have one somewhere 
m

[Paul S.]

I was hoping to provide something in the way of provenance to support the Moore attribution (or come to that whoever made them)  -  I sent an email on 17th June to the V. & A., who own one or two examples, requesting information, but no answer yet.
I understand they are busy, and their standard reply to all requests is that answers may take something like three weeks - so fingers crossed that a reply will be forthcoming soon.

All else failing, perhaps Angela can go back to Angus McDonald and ask if he is able to provide some guidance as to origin of the Moore attribution.
By the way Angela, did your contact publish his book on the glass baron of South Shields - don't think I've seen details on the Board?         Might you offer to write a review?

[Paul S.]

pleased to say the V. & A. have now replied - as below.              I wouldn't presume my knowledge to be on a par with such luminaries as Raymond Slack, Barbara Morris or Rebbeca Wallis, so will refrain from commenting further, other than to say that a definitive conclusion appears no nearer, and naturally, I've thanked Rebbeca for her time and trouble.
It does appear that presently we are only able to say that this design is likely Ed. Moore, and I'd still be very interested to know if Angus McDonald's book was published, and if his conclusions were any more substantial than the V. & A.
It's unfortunate that we shall never know the circumstances surrounding Barbara Morris' acceptance of the Prague museum Sowerby attribution.

Not that it in any way substantiates anything, but just thought it worth mentioning that in view of the fact that Sowerby's first Registration wasn't until February 1872, then it could be argued this could explain why all of the recorded examples of the Swan Vase lack a lozenge  -  just supposing this was a Sowerby design.
On the other hand Sowerby's invention of Vitro-Porcelain didn't occur until 1877, and I'm assuming these Swan Vases are all Vitro-Porcelain - apart from the Jet examples  -  is that correct Fred???

""Thank you for your enquiry. The vase you refer to in the V&A is currently attributed to Edward Moore based on notes we have on file.
Former V&A curator Barbara Morris and J. Thompson noted the attribution but give no reference. The note in the acquisition register is dated 1989, after Morris' 1978 book Victorian Table Glass and Ornaments where she refers to the Museum of Decorative Arts, Prague, as having bought this type / design directly from Sowerby in 1868. Raymond Slack states in English Pressed Glass: 1830-1900, pub 1987. p.108  that such colours as shown on this vase were attributed to Moore. I can't find the shape in any of the design books published for either factory - an example can be seen via this link  http://e-britain.co.uk/victorian_pressed_glass/pattern_books.htm

Without further in-depth research, which I am unable to do at this time, I can  only say the likely candidate is Moore. I would suggest contacting the South Shields Museum (Tyne and Wear Museums)which has a larger collection of Moore's glass as they may have more archive material to establish the source.

I hope this information is useful.
Kind regards,
Rebecca Wallis
Curator, Ceramics and Glass""

Sorry, meant to add.............    assume this thread should now be moved to British....   thanks.

[agincourt17]

For what it’s worth, I don’t have many reference photos of these ‘swan’ vases (largely because I’m reluctant to even give a putative attribution to them until some kind of definitive archival evidence is forthcoming) but all the examples I do have photos of are in opaque marbled glass.

I think Raymond Slack is probably the main source of the commonly-held attribution of the ‘swan’ vases to Edward Moore because, in the descriptive text for fig. 82 on page 108 of ‘English Pressed Glass 1830-1900 (published in 1987), he states “ Blue Marbled Vitro-Porcelain ‘swan’ vase moulded with three swans linked by chains, beneath a zigzag border c. 1880… Vases like this have in the past been attributed to Sowerby’s of Gateshead. There is no direct evidence for this, however, and the ‘swan’ vase appears in many colours which are not associated with Sowerby’s , but which are colours patented by Edward Moore & Co. It is therefore probable that the vases were made by Edward Moore.”

Remember, though, that Slack was writing around 30 years ago.

I personally try only to use the term ‘Vitro-porcelain’ to refer to a type of opaque single-coloured glass specifically from Sowerby (all the colours being from within a fairly restricted range, none of which fluoresce under UV light). I’m really not sure how the composition of the coloured glass mixtures used in Sowerby’s marbled glass/ ‘malachite’ items compares to that of their plain opaque Vitro-porcelain pieces.

Edward Moore registered 3 designs between 1861 and 1868, then no more until 7 October 1886. A quick check on reference photos that I have of patterns from Edward Moore’s registered designs are all from 1886 or later, but they don’t reveal a single example in marbled glass. The majority of designs are in transparent colourless glass, some are in transparent yellow-green uranium glass, and a few in single-coloured opaque glass (viz. creamer, pedestal sugar and 2-handled footed sugar RD 58275 of 7 October 1876 in opaque white and caramel, and the pedestal sugar in ‘eau-de-nil’; double-shell sweetmeat dish with loop handle RD 107316 of 5 September 1888 in opaque white; black opaque top hat RD 132189 of 31 August 1889.

Slack shows (fig. 80 on page 107) an unregistered Edward Moore sugar bowl in blue ‘Vitro-porcelain’, and (fig. 81 on page 108) an unregistered candlestick in blue marbled ‘Vitro-porcelain’, but I imagine that he is using the term ‘Vitro-porcelain’ is a rather loose kind of manner rather than drawing a direct comparison with the composition of Sowerby’s Vitro-porcelain.

Fred.