Topic: Tall drinking glasses with wide base cut & etched - unmarked

[barnsite]

Hi, not sure if anyone can help with a pair of, what I assume are wine glasses.  Bought from a second hand shop, the thing liked about them is the design and the large size.  The other odd thing is that the bases are wider than the bowl.

They're quite tall, approx 8.5" (21.5 cm) and weigh approx 15.5 oz (450 g).  Base is approx 4" (10 cm) diameter and bowl at the lip is approx 3.5" (8.5 cm).  Leaves are cut then the detail has been etched, bases have a star shaped cut to them.

May have been made last week or 50 years ago, I don't have a clue!  Any help really appreciated 

Thanks, Graham

[Anne]

Hi Graham, welcome to the board. We could really do with bigger pics to be able to see them better please. You should be able to go up to about 700 pixels on the longest edge and still make them fit our 125kb per image size limit.

[barnsite]

Hi Anna,

thanks for your response.  Larger pics below

Regards, Graham

[Paul S.]

thoughts and opinions for what they're worth..........

the leaves and possibly flowers look to be stylized convolvulus, which was a common subject for decoration, along with water lilies and other large leaved plants during the period 1870 - 1910     .......   a nod toward art nouveau  -  although my thoughts are that these glasses don't have that sort of age, but I could be wrong.     With glass, copying is prolific, so can be difficult to know whether a piece is period or a later, and bearing in mind the size of these it's very possible that they were made as decorative only rather than for use.
Some really big names both in U.K. and continent used floral and leafy adornment for top and bottom end work during this period.

Looking at what is being suggested as etched, I'm not sure it is.          If you blow the pix up, the matte areas appear possibly too granular for acid, and are possibly sandblasted, but can't make my mind up which would have been done first.......   the cutting or the sandblasting - you'd assume sandblasting, otherwise the matte would encroach into the cut mitres, but not sure.
the slightly everted rims might suggest these aren't recent, but that's probably an unreliable suggestion, and the lack of a backstamp probably means you'll never discover the maker, unfortunately.
You don't mention wear Graham - many here believe this has a dubious value when dating, but with care can have it's uses in suggesting whether made yesterday or 1916.

attached are couple of pix showing very similar types of decoration etc.....    finger bowl and unlidded sugar (both unmarked)  .......  so if you can date for me I'd be grateful

[barnsite]

Hi Paul, thanks! That's a lot of info, I understand that any opinion can only be a best guess so I appreciate your input.

To me they just don't "feel" old, can't explain really especially as I know practically nothing about glass other than vintage eye baths (of which I used to have several hundred) so I have an idea how to spot blown glass, etc.

I think these are hand made, even if only last week.  I think, looking from the top of the base, through the stem, that there are signs of a pontil mark that that has been obscured by the cut base (impossible to get a meaningful picture).  The rims also show signs of being blown and close up the glass just looks like blown glass (although, as I say, I'm far from an expert!).

Couple of pics below, looks like the etching / blasting is after the cutting?

I would love to give you any info on your items, if you can find some eyebaths then we're on!

Kind regards, Graham

[Paul S.]

your close up pix are good, and maybe I'm wrong about the sandblasting  -  ordinarily you wouldn't expect to find that particular method used on pieces such as these - it was a quickie method used on utilitarian glass 100 years ago or thereabouts, and was often applied poorly - giving rise to a rather obvious stencil-like appearance and as I've mentioned, a very grainy look  -  with, of course, no depth at all.        If there is some noticeable depth on yours (albeit very shallow), to those areas that appear matte, then quite likely acid rather than sandblasted, which has a very 'on-the-surface' appearance.
At least you can say it's not wheel engraved  -  which leaves fine directional lines on the surface.
In fact sandblasting re-appeared in the late C20 and probably still continues as a method to decorate some top end studio glass, but the effect is vastly different to one hundred years ago.

thanks for the offer re eye baths which I don't collect ordinarily  -  although in fact I've recently parted with a nice baluster-stemmed example, in Bristol-blue to a GMB member, and I'm waiting for this person to post on the Board -  neither of us were very sure as to date, but assumed some time possibly in the second half of the C19.                Perhaps this will jog their memory

[bat20]

I don't know if this celery vase might help,it must be 19th century from what Paul is saying and has water lily and flower decoration.

[Paul S.]

nice celery, and yes, insofar as these things go back a long way then very possible that yours comes from the period we were discussing, but difficult to be certain in view of the copying and overlapping of time scales with these things.          You may well get some better idea of age from the extent of wear - these things were used frequently.

The glasses posted by Graham show outlines of leaves etc. created by genuine mitred cuts - those V shaped lines which provide the outline of the design, and then by the use of wheel engraving are given a matte infill to provide contrast and a three dimensional look.     
However, there were many pieces of every day cheaper table glass etc. that used a machine acid etch to create the outline (instead of cutting a mitre), and then used the wheel and grit to create the shaded infill.
It's easy to tell the difference between the mitre and the machine acid line - one has depth, the other doesn't, and looking at the celery it's possible that the outline of those leaves is an acid machine etch.               I get the impression that needle etch machines were able to create much tighter curves than a wheel.
Using a lens, have a look too at the matte infill  -  you should see directional lines where a small copper wheel was used.

The attached champagne glass, decorated with passion flowers and leaves,  is a good example of a cheap glass given a tarted-up look.....   the outline is machine acid etch and then the infill is created on the wheel.            If looked at closely the work is of poor quality and the engraving can be seen to both run over the acid lines and in some places to be incomplete.
The outlines on the celery do look fine and very shallow - suggesting machine acid etch work  -  might this be the case??

Machine acid etch work had a very long life - probably well over one hundred years - so much is seen in charity shops and fairs that it may well still be produced, I really don't know.

Anyway, this was just to comment on the difference in methods of producing decorative outline designs on, mostly, drinking and other table glass.

[Paul S.]

Hi Graham  -  I see we now have Julie's eye bath - so looking to test your knowledge when you have the time

[bat20]

Interesting stuff,thanks Paul.