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Author Topic: Engraved finger bowl?  (Read 1609 times)

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Offline bat20

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Engraved finger bowl?
« on: August 12, 2016, 07:55:14 PM »
Evening all,I came across this little bowl advertised as a Victorian fruit breakfast bowl and something about the engraving makes me feel it could be earlier,it's 4"wd and 3 ht with nice tooling marks vertical and horizontal,there are a few small black seeds and bubbles with lots of wear plus a lovely ring.I think I've seen some engraving similar to this on a rummer from about 1800 or there abouts and it just feels 18th century?..I wonder if it's a bit small for a finger bowl although I have seen a very similar shaped bowl described as such and there are no spoon marks on the inside?I really like it and would love to hear your thoughts,many thanks.

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Offline bat20

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Re: Engraved finger bowl?
« Reply #1 on: August 12, 2016, 07:58:10 PM »
I should add there is a very shallow concave polished Pontil.

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Offline Paul S.

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Re: Engraved finger bowl?
« Reply #2 on: August 12, 2016, 09:19:45 PM »
could be wrong, but don't think I've ever seen a finger bowl, or rinser come to that, with a rudimentary foot like this  -  and I've seen a lot of such things........... but I have seen sugars in this shape - so my opinion is that this one is a footed sugar bowl and not a finger bowl.

As for the decoration, you may well be correct and it may be from the latter part of the C18  -  it doesn't have the looks of the later Victorian ferny pteridomania style, so my thoughts are perhaps 1790 - 1820, but as with all these things there is always overlap and difficult to be positive about dating. 

Just my opinion  -  let's see what others think, but it's a nice piece :)

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Offline Anne Tique

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Re: Engraved finger bowl?
« Reply #3 on: August 12, 2016, 09:56:46 PM »
I agree with Paul, and not just because he likes my windows  :)

I don't think I've ever seen a footed finger bowl before either... you'd be quite discreet using it at the dinner table, especially in the older days ... you'd draw attention to yourself using it if it was a bit higher and perhaps would risk knocking it over in the process.

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Offline brucebanner

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Re: Engraved finger bowl?
« Reply #4 on: August 12, 2016, 10:07:41 PM »
Is it a piece of repaired glass missing a base, repolished ?.
Chris Parry

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Offline bat20

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Re: Engraved finger bowl?
« Reply #5 on: August 12, 2016, 10:30:16 PM »
I don't think so Chris looking at the wear to the base and looking over it,I think Paul is right having had a look around now,the dimensions seem close to Other sugars.Here is the glass that got me thinking finger bowl,it is larger though and I guess could be a sugar,....can't seem to do the link,but if you google Lynn glass finger bowl you'll see what I mean about the shape and foot.

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Offline KevinH

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Re: Engraved finger bowl?
« Reply #6 on: August 13, 2016, 01:05:05 AM »
Quote
... can't seem to do the link,but if you google Lynn glass finger bowl you'll see what I mean about the shape and foot.
This one? ... Sold item in Scottish Antiques website
KevinH

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Offline bat20

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Re: Engraved finger bowl?
« Reply #7 on: August 13, 2016, 06:32:39 AM »
Yes that's it ,thanks.

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Offline Paul S.

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Re: Engraved finger bowl?
« Reply #8 on: August 13, 2016, 08:06:26 AM »
the difference in shape of the feet between bat's sugar bowl and the piece of Lynn moulded glass shown in the link, is very noticeable, and it would appear there is a practicable reason for this - which have to say I was unaware of .............    but then Lynn glass isn't something you find everyday.

In the 1995 Delomosne & Son catalogue for the Derek Wilmot collection of Lynn Glass, there are something like six (five clear and one green) examples of what are called 'water bowls', three of which have what is described as a 'return base', which is similar to the Scottish Antiques bowl shown in the link.
According to the author of the Delomosne catalogue, those water bowls with 'return bases' were made with this base projection specifically such that the base would fit securely into a matching under-dish  -  the idea apparently being that the whole thing could be moved as a unit, safely, when serving at table.             From this information it's possible to suggest that when sold the Scottish Antiques example was incomplete.
Of course, it's not possible to be certain - even if you have both the bowl and under-plate - that they actually started out life together, which is given usually as 1750 - 1780, although apparently examples with polished out pontils are believed to be of a later date.
I had assumed the terms water bowls and finger bowls were simply interchangeable, but having looked at the Delomosne catalogue now not really sure, as there are coloured examples included in the catalogue which are described as 'finger bowls', and they appear very similar to the clear water bowls. :-\

The contentious issue regarding the descriptive name for this very distinctive glass with moulded rings has run for years, and much ink spilled, but it seems as a design it has nothing to do with King's Lynn (Norfolk, U.K.), and may have in fact been made in a variety of locations in Britain.
The fact that a fine quality white sand of great purity was exported from that area to London and Ireland during the C18, might possibly have contributed to the later misconception - but that's just my opinion.

As you might expect, the Michael Parkington sales at Christie's in 1997 and 1998 included several Lynn moulded pieces - mostly decanters it seems  -  but the catalogue for Part II did include a single bowl closely matching the example in the Scottish Antiques link.            In the Christie's catalogue it is described as a 'Lynn finger bowl of ogee form, last quarter of 18th century - 12 cm. diameter'...........   it too was without its under-plate.

Apologies for the long-winded note, but just thought it worth adding a bit to the Board's archive re these things.         Catalogues such as those produced by Delomosne (and they have produced some real crackers) on C18/C19 glass, and past auction catalogues from sources like Chrisities, are massively helpful when looking to confirm provenance etc. of historical shapes and designs.

So for Christmas I would like a Lynn moulded decanter, ditto water bowl with under-plate plus ditto wine glass, please. ;) ;)

 

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Offline oldglassman

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Re: Engraved finger bowl?
« Reply #9 on: August 13, 2016, 09:22:28 AM »
HI ,
           Place you Christmas orders here Paul,

As said by Paul much has been written about Lynn glass including such nonsense that they can be ringed either inside or outside a vessel or both !!!!!.Personally I believe the Delomosne publication to be the most accurate essay on the subject.

cheers ,

Peter

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