No-one likes general adverts, and ours hadn't been updated for ages, so we're having a clear-out and a change round to make the new ones useful to you. These new adverts bring in a small amount to help pay for the board and keep it free for you to use, so please do use them whenever you can, Let our links help you find great books on glass or a new piece for your collection. Thank you for supporting the Board.

Author Topic: Linen Smoother 1840 or 16th / 17th century - Gribdae Farm Kirkudbright  (Read 8776 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline flying free

  • Members
  • **
  • Posts: 13194
    • UK
Re: Linen Smoother 1840 or 16th / 17th century - Gribdae Farm Kirkudbright
« Reply #20 on: October 27, 2024, 05:28:55 PM »
With reference to my original post regarding J.G Scott querying whether the handled Gribdae farm linen smoother was viking era
https://canmore.org.uk/site/64543/gribdae

he questioned this in the 1954-56 proceedings citing reference that it had been brought to his attention that Woodchester glasshouse had produced these in the late 1500s. Hence him questioning the dating of this handled Gribdae farm item as a viking era item.

The Woodchester Glass House book, J. Stuart Daniels, was published by John Bellows Limited in 1950.

Mine differs from the one in the museum because I think the Gribdae farm one in the museum has a straight handle with no finger grips and mine has slight undulations in the handle that look as though they might be finger grips. 
The one reproduction item pictured in the Woodchester book Plate III fig 16 doesn't appear to have finger grips but is straight up like the Gribdae museum item.

However ... it also has a rounded top, not broken off as mine is and the one from Gribdae is:
 https://journals.socantscot.org/index.php/psas/article/view/8474/8442

If I have read the book  correctly (see page 9 under 'PLATE IV' for book explanation) this is supposed to be a reproduction of the item fragments found at Woodchester shown on Plate IV figs 20,21,22. 

Those pictured fragments show a straight up 'handle' with a straight across top and bottom.  The bottom of the handle appears to have some extra glass attached on the right hand side.  BUT it doesn't show a handle with a rounded off top as the apparent reproduction does.

 So the reproduction isn't faithful is it? How did Powell's know the top of the handle should be rounded off?

There are a number of linen smoothers with handles shown here - some from Museum of London.  None have rounded tops:
http://www.theglassmakers.co.uk/pdffiles/linensmoothers.pdf
and
https://www.londonmuseum.org.uk/search/collections/?q=linen+smoother

Support the Glass Message Board by finding a book via book-seek.com


Offline cagney

  • Members
  • **
  • Posts: 392
    • U.S.A.
Re: Linen Smoother 1840 or 16th / 17th century - Gribdae Farm Kirkudbright
« Reply #21 on: October 27, 2024, 05:34:41 PM »
  The Knopf Collector' Guides to American Antiques, GLASS, Volume 2, Bottles,Lamps & other Objects written by Jane Shadel Spillman pictures one in a dark olive green glass with a thumb rest on the top
{see photo of my quick sketch}. I sketched it from memory and left out one of the knops for a total of four on the original piece which would make it more in proportion to its base. She puts the date at 1800-1850. She feels they were used at room temperature as the tendency to crack would be way too high.

  The one in the CMOG {50.4.489} evidently has a definite provenance from the Willington Glassworks c.1800-1825. No shaft really just a knob.

  While I am no laundry expert, I believe early 19th century laundering methods went something like this: fill your metal tub with water, put it on the stand over the fire, heat it up, add your linen/whatever and have your cleanser close at hand, scrub like hell.

  I would posit that the linen smoother would come into play right after the wringing out of the excess water and the linen/whatever was still warm and damp.

Support the Glass Message Board by finding glass through glass-seek.com


Offline flying free

  • Members
  • **
  • Posts: 13194
    • UK
Re: Linen Smoother 1840 or 16th / 17th century - Gribdae Farm Kirkudbright
« Reply #22 on: October 27, 2024, 06:00:17 PM »
  The Knopf Collector' Guides to American Antiques, GLASS, Volume 2, Bottles,Lamps & other Objects written by Jane Shadel Spillman pictures one in a dark olive green glass with a thumb rest on the top
{see photo of my quick sketch}. I sketched it from memory and left out one of the knops for a total of four on the original piece which would make it more in proportion to its base. She puts the date at 1800-1850. She feels they were used at room temperature as the tendency to crack would be way too high.

  The one in the CMOG {50.4.489} evidently has a definite provenance from the Willington Glassworks c.1800-1825. No shaft really just a knob.

  While I am no laundry expert, I believe early 19th century laundering methods went something like this: fill your metal tub with water, put it on the stand over the fire, heat it up, add your linen/whatever and have your cleanser close at hand, scrub like hell.

  I would posit that the linen smoother would come into play right after the wringing out of the excess water and the linen/whatever was still warm and damp.

Is there evidence the one in the Corning from Willington Glassworks was definitely used as an iron/linen smoother? It says it's badly worn from usage.  I'm just wondering how many linen items the poor person would have had to iron to make that amount of wear on it.

Mine is very worn in the central area at the bottom - the shine is worn off.  But the rest of it apart from the odd scuff patch on the side of the base looks as though it were made yesterday.  Yet I think it's 400 years old.
If I hold it with my thumb on what 'appears' to be a broken top, it fits very nicely.

I will look up the Shadel Spillman item if I can find it - thank you :)

I don't know if they were used on damp cloth to be honest.  I mean ironing a long skirt with a stone with a handle is ridiculous to me. Especially a stone shape that wasn't flat at the base but curved.  It would have taken hours.  But to press creases or seams or smaller collars then I can see that perhaps yes,with the curve shaped bottom good so as not to snag surrounding material whilst pressing a small area.  That said, it would have still been ridiculously unwieldy to have used the one with a handle to iron a seam.  I mean ... really, to be honest I'm struggling to see how these could have been used as linen smoothers.


I can see how in medieval time a smooth stone might have been used hand held cupped in the hand.  But not these heavy ones with handles attached.

Washing laundry was a very convoluted art.  Heavy big materials, lots of cloth etc - various recipes in late 1700/early 1800s book talk about boiling rice, then removing rice, boiling the item in rice water, then pressing it but not with a hot iron etc.  and that's just for Chintz or ribbons depending on which year and which journal you're reading.


I think what I'm coming to is that I think mine is much older than 1800s.  And I think the Gribdae farm one is as well.  They are a good match for what is in the Woodchester Glass House book but the book isn't a pattern book of course.
 
The Woodchester author wrote (published 1954) 'Various observers have considered them to be pestles for pulverising or grinding glass-making materials, and others have thought them to be linen smoothers for domestic use'.  So there was debate in 1954 over what they could have been used for.
I can't find anything of contemporary times that describes these handled items as linen smoothers.



Support the Glass Message Board by finding a book via book-seek.com


Offline flying free

  • Members
  • **
  • Posts: 13194
    • UK
Re: Linen Smoother 1840 or 16th / 17th century - Gribdae Farm Kirkudbright
« Reply #23 on: October 27, 2024, 06:42:58 PM »
For example this item in the Bonhams sale weighs well over 20lb!  Mine is heavy but not that heavy and I can't imagine ironing a seam with that.
https://www.bonhams.com/auction/25846/lot/800/a-very-large-green-glass-linen-smoother-probably-dublin-ireland-circa-1760/

In the original Gribdae proceedings reports somewhere there was an enquiry about one in a York museum that weighed 25lb and asking if that was a linen smoother. I will try and find that.

Support the Glass Message Board by finding glass through glass-seek.com


Offline flying free

  • Members
  • **
  • Posts: 13194
    • UK
Re: Linen Smoother 1840 or 16th / 17th century - Gribdae Farm Kirkudbright
« Reply #24 on: October 27, 2024, 08:06:27 PM »
This is a good side on view of a similar item.  It shows the small amount of glass that would have had contact at the base. 
Unless there was a specific rocking method used for smoothing linen and rocking the implement then it's a very small area of contact. 
If there was a specific rocking method then wouldn't there be wear all over the base of these items rather than just in the middle like mine is?
https://www.exhibitantiques.com/item/3756/exhibitantiques/Antique-Georgian-Glass-Linen-Smoother-c1750-1820.html

I suppose contact with damp linen would cause some friction but it seems an awful lot of wear to come from a piece of linen material.  100% Linen material glass cloths are sold even now and are the only ones I use to dry and shine my glasses as cotton doesn't work. 

I can't think of another use for them except as a muller for some kind of paste mixing or /spices/salt/sugar lumps /paints etc. and I think paint mullers are flat on the base? but not sure.
Smoothers of some kind seem to have been used for leather working but from the little I could read about that I think they were flat pieces of glass with a smoothed long edge. 

Support the Glass Message Board by finding a book via book-seek.com


Offline cagney

  • Members
  • **
  • Posts: 392
    • U.S.A.
Re: Linen Smoother 1840 or 16th / 17th century - Gribdae Farm Kirkudbright
« Reply #25 on: October 27, 2024, 08:42:13 PM »
  I suppose they could have more than one usage. Some may have started out as linen smoothers then eventually serve a purpose wholly divorced from such a task. Spillman does mention in the comment section of the Knopfs book concerning the smoother " although early colonists brought European-made linen smoothers to this country, examples were also made here in bottle and window glass houses".I assume that comment is not taken from "thin air" as we say and some documentation some where backs that up. My copy of Knopfs GLASS 2 is a first printing c.1983. A 4 1/2 x 8 1/2 in. paperback designed to fit in the pocket or purse. 346 items taking up one page each including a nice photograph. The text on each page features six informational categories for each piece, Description,Variations,Type and Dimensions, Locality and Period, Comment, and Hints for Collectors. I doubt you will find an excerpt somewhere, then again one never knows.

  The one in my collection is a fairly simple affair and I will show you mine even though you haven't shown me yours....Ha. Ha.  It has some grinding around the top edge of the short handle I assume to take away some sharpe edges.

 So some are flat and some are rounded, curious.

Support the Glass Message Board by finding glass through glass-seek.com


Offline flying free

  • Members
  • **
  • Posts: 13194
    • UK
Re: Linen Smoother 1840 or 16th / 17th century - Gribdae Farm Kirkudbright
« Reply #26 on: October 27, 2024, 09:41:28 PM »
aah no I think the one in the photograph appears as a flat top (Woodchester original fragment of handle) but I wonder if it's cracked off the pontil rod and left rough.  All the ones in black glass I've seen have rough tops to the handles!  They can't have all had the tops of their handles broken.  For a start if it was dropped on the floor then I think the heavy bottom mushroom end would land first.  And mine is leadweight glass so I can't see that handle breaking at the top.  I think they were made like that (but then I know absolutely nothing about glassmaking).

So - this one was for sale through Sworders a few months ago:
https://www.sworder.co.uk/auction/lot/249-a-black-green-glass-linen-smoother-or-sleek-stone/?lot=504790&sd=1

The little personal label on it (so not evidence but interesting nonetheless) says early 18th century slicker used for polishing wood floors.  I did read that somewhere in my myriad of searches.
So ... now ... I can actually picture that usage in my head , a cloth wound round a slicker and used to polish off the floor.  Yes I can relate to that.  Though I've used a small block of wood with a cloth wound round it. So I still think a flat surface would have been more efficient and better for that job.

I've checked out what painters mullers I can find and I think they would have had a flat base.
Which leaves so far a possible for it being a muller used in a bowl for griding salt chunks and sugar lumps or similar. Or something else to a powder.
Or ... a painful to use linen smoother.

Support the Glass Message Board by finding a book via book-seek.com


Offline thewingedsphinx

  • Members
  • **
  • Posts: 663
    • Victorian pressed glass
    • United Kingdom
Re: Linen Smoother 1840 or 16th / 17th century - Gribdae Farm Kirkudbright
« Reply #27 on: October 27, 2024, 09:46:53 PM »
Thought I’d add some of my pictures for this interesting thread, the black one is around 6.5 inches similar to wrockwardine early Nailsea glass and very well worn. The red cotton twist around 4.5 inches also well worn, sold both of these a long time ago for a local enthusiast. Then  I recently found my little opalescent Vaseline one around 3.5 inches and had to buy it because I’ve never seen another. It has no wear and I presume from around 1890’s. Clear Vaseline inside with white opalescent around the outside. Described as a darning mushroom???? Not quite sure of its purpose.
Regards Mike

Support the Glass Message Board by finding glass through glass-seek.com


Offline flying free

  • Members
  • **
  • Posts: 13194
    • UK
Re: Linen Smoother 1840 or 16th / 17th century - Gribdae Farm Kirkudbright
« Reply #28 on: October 27, 2024, 10:18:24 PM »
So, adding some pics.
Mine is 14.5 cm tall by 10 cm wide. 
It may be damaged at the top but it is smooth to touch. 
Some areas are shiny at the top and some are matt. 
The base 'bun' is very indented on top where the handle joins the foot.
I did have a photograph long ago where I managed to finally get some strong light through it at that top and it was green streaky glass.  Cannot replicate that to take a new pic unfortunately.

I think this is much older than 1900s.

And now I'm looking at the wear on the base, I recall seeing those funny scratchy outward facing marks on another one. Would linen make those marks? It looks to me like someone pushed down on the foot against something scratchy/hard and then pulled the object towards them.  Kind of like if you were holding a big bowl of something against your body and then ground whatever the something was pulling the muller towards you in regular motions.  Do you know what I mean?

Support the Glass Message Board by finding a book via book-seek.com


Offline flying free

  • Members
  • **
  • Posts: 13194
    • UK
Re: Linen Smoother 1840 or 16th / 17th century - Gribdae Farm Kirkudbright
« Reply #29 on: October 27, 2024, 10:27:12 PM »
I can't weigh it as no scales but it's very heavy and easy to use but unwieldy to hold/use because of the weight. 

Support the Glass Message Board by finding glass through glass-seek.com


 

SMF spam blocked by CleanTalk
Visit the Glass Encyclopedia
link to glass encyclopedia
Visit the Online Glass Museum
link to glass museum


This website is provided by Angela Bowey, PO Box 113, Paihia 0247, New Zealand