Topic: Linen Smoother 1840 or 16th / 17th century - Gribdae Farm Kirkudbright

[flying free]

Hmmm -
Apparently in the 1780s a Druidical temple of stones was broken up to build a bridge nearby Gribdae.
In the 1850s a Mr Bell of Balgreddan told the Ordinance Survey people of this:

https://www.thenorthernantiquarian.org/2021/03/10/bombie/

William Bell senior may have told William Bell F.S.A. his son, of this story and it has been misremembered by William Bell the son, or misinterpreted between him and Hamilton when reporting the story.

So ... IF the story is true of some kind of 'cairn of stones' being found,  perhaps that was Hamilton's interpretation of the story of the group of big Druidical stones being moved.  That could mean the black handled 'linen-smoother' donated by Bell was found when THAT move of Druidical stones happened so perhaps that takes it back to 1780 ish of the find. 

And given it was found when the Druidical temple was broken up - I wonder if it was buried and somehow  linked to the building of the Druidical temple stones in some way?

Off to look up Druidical temples 

Druidical temple example/info here:
https://bathgatehills.co.uk/cromlech-or-remains-of-druids-temple/

Having read this about druidical temples, it could just be that a heap of big stones were moved from one place to another in 1780 to make a drain. The reading of Hamilton has made a possible link to them being viking grave/burial possibly,  but it could just be that they were a heap of stones.  Still it could take the Gribdae 'linen-smoother' article back to 1780.  And if it was 'found' in 1780 then maybe it was made earlier.

[flying free]

1745 document with the name of Clownestanegill (a rill) by Gribdae burn
https://www.google.co.uk/books/edition/The_New_Statistical_Account_of_Scotland/9uk1AAAAMAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=gribdae+farm+kirkcudbright&pg=RA2-PA5&printsec=frontcover

It was Clownestanegill the OS people had come to find in 1850 according to this
https://www.thenorthernantiquarian.org/2021/03/10/bombie/

and William Bell who told them about the stones.

[flying free]

swedish speaker here: "grinding paint" (pigments) is the right translation here

Kerstin from Sweden

Thank you Kerstin.  Much appreciated.

I've been thinking about this paint grinding.  I wonder if it might have been used for grinding pigment for painting items/cups/vessels of glass - actually done at the glassworks.

[Ekimp]

I'm a bit confused about the sugar and salt petre mixing using the same implement but then I'm not a chemist.

I believe those two ingredients mixed in the correct proportions are explosive (but I’m not googling it to check).

[flying free]

yes did wonder  - because I think  I read somewhere in a report about Kirkcudbright in Scotland a phrase something like ' everyone had guns then'.  I just can't remember where I read that and what time period it was referring to.  So I did wonder if it might refer to that - I know nothing about this so no idea but thought perhaps it was something everyone did at the time .
I think it might have been when I thought the donor was referring to William Bell snr and so would have been early 1800s.  However if William Junior was the one who in 1881 said his dad used it for mixing saltpetre and sugar, then he was talking mid 1800. He was born 1845 and his dad died 1861.  Mr Hamilton casually threw the information in to his letter that it was knocking about the farm and his dad used it for mixing the two.


There was another black glass one for sale here - also with what appears to be damaged top.
https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/18th-century-black-glass-linen-275965599

They all have what appears to be damaged tops.  I think it must be where they were snapped off the pontil rod.

There are  two in the York Museums Trust.  One appears to have a flattish top (snapped of pontil mark?) but a more rounded top as though it hasn't been damaged at all
https://www.yorkmuseumstrust.org.uk/collections/search/item/?id=45001532&search_query=bGltaXQ9MTYmQ0wlNUIwJTVEPVNvY2lhbCtIaXN0b3J5

[flying free]

A publication from 1896 where on page 96 there is a discussion about box irons etc to use for smoothing linen.  The writer says the box iron is as old as at least 1746.
https://www.google.co.uk/books/edition/Notes_and_Queries/AiX4qzn9i0MC?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=sleek-stone&pg=PA96&printsec=frontcover

Obviously I appreciate there will have been timeline crossovers of implements etc. and that because a new one begins it doesn't mean an old automatically ends.

 There is also mention of sleek stones but no real descriptions of what they look like (i.e. handled v not)

Ekimp - if you (or anyone is still reading my ramblings    ) the question I'd remembered was actually from the Warrington Museum saying they had a piece with the appearance of a 'claim' to be a sleek stone dated 1607. Author said it weighed 25 1/2 pounds and wondered if there were others around.

[flying free]

Possibly another tenuous link however I decided to look at 18th century black glass bottles to see if I could see a link and quite bizarrely the second link I clicked on as an 'ooh that looks vaguely similar'  mentioned Kirkcudbright!

Bonhams description says (my bolding):
Quote
'A sealed onion wine bottle, dated 1745
Of dark-green tint, the compressed globular form with a short tapering neck applied with a wide string rim, applied on the shoulder with a moulded seal inscribed 'W Stinton 1745' within a circular solid-line border, kick-in base, 18.5cm high, 16cm diameter (small chip to seal)
Footnotes
Another example of this rare bottle with an identical seal is recorded by David Burton, Antique Sealed Bottles, Vol. 2 (2015), p. 626 with a note that it was discovered in an antique shop in Kirkcudbrightshire, Scotland (see British Bottle Review no. 34 (1987), p. 25). This or possibly another specimen is illustrated by Willy van den Bossche, Antique Glass Bottles (2001), p. 94, pl. 42. Burton notes that the date 1745 is unusually late for an onion shaped bottle.'

https://www.bonhams.com/auction/22839/lot/22/a-sealed-onion-wine-bottle-dated-1745/

The thing is my 'linen smoother' is completely very shiny black, not even a hint of green/olive green to the eye.  I had to get someone else to hold it over and close to/right on the bulb of a very strong light to get that smallest part of show through to photograph.   I know it's solid v a sealed glass bottle but that bottle is double walled to the eye and described as 'dark green tint'. My linen smoother couldn't be described as dark green tint at all.

[flying free]

http://www.kirkcudbright.co/kirkcudbright/lands.asp

John Bell, the second son, succeeded to Gribdae. Whom he married is not mentioned. He had issue, five sons and five daughters. The two eldest sons were-
John, died in infancy.
William, born in 1780.

'The latter succeeded on the death of his father in 1835. He had issue-
William, born in 1846.
John, born in 1848.

He purchased, in 1857, Castlecreavie, parish of Rerwick. He died in 1861, leaving Gribdae to his eldest son William, and Castlecreavie to his son John.

William married, in June 1877, Catherine Ireland, second daughter of R. M'C. Gordon of Rattra, parish of Borgue.

Gribdae seems to us to be a corruption of the Cymric or Welsh word gwerydre, for cultivated land.'

I'm just adding this here for my reference because I couldn't find a record on the family search type thing of William Snr having a son William born 1846.  There only seemed to be a record of the son John born 1848.



RE the use of the handled linen smoothers I can't find any documentary primary source evidence so far. Nothing in the old 'how to conduct your life' type of publications etc and no  pictures/oil paintings/engravings etc. 
There is the very early mention of the slick stone murder in Surrey but it doesn't describe what the slick stone was made of or whether it had a handle.

[Ekimp]

Now that you’ve drawn attention to it, the ones without a handle make more sense to me as a potential linen smoother. You could apply pressure by pressing down with your weight through the palm, so would it need to be really heavy? The handle position isn’t very ergonomically positioned for heavy work either, can you imagine how awkward it would be using a modern iron with a vertical handle? Also it doesn’t seem practical to have a convex bottom on a large heavy smoother, if that’s what it was, it would be difficult to control if it wobbled around. I can see a small one with handle might be useful for collars or other details.

[flying free]

Hmmm -
Apparently in the 1780s a Druidical temple of stones was broken up to build a bridge nearby Gribdae.
In the 1850s a Mr Bell of Balgreddan told the Ordinance Survey people of this:

https://www.thenorthernantiquarian.org/2021/03/10/bombie/

William Bell senior may have told William Bell F.S.A. his son, of this story and it has been misremembered by William Bell the son, or misinterpreted between him and Hamilton when reporting the story.

So ... IF the story is true of some kind of 'cairn of stones' being found,  perhaps that was Hamilton's interpretation of the story of the group of big Druidical stones being moved.  That could mean the black handled 'linen-smoother' donated by Bell was found when THAT move of Druidical stones happened so perhaps that takes it back to 1780 ish of the find. 

And given it was found when the Druidical temple was broken up - I wonder if it was buried and somehow  linked to the building of the Druidical temple stones in some way?

Off to look up Druidical temples 

Druidical temple example/info here:
https://bathgatehills.co.uk/cromlech-or-remains-of-druids-temple/

Having read this about druidical temples, it could just be that a heap of big stones were moved from one place to another in 1780 to make a drain. The reading of Hamilton has made a possible link to them being viking grave/burial possibly,  but it could just be that they were a heap of stones.  Still it could take the Gribdae 'linen-smoother' article back to 1780.  And if it was 'found' in 1780 then maybe it was made earlier.

This is a link to the Ordinance Surveyhandwritten  information of 1848-1851 describing Buckland Burn and the link with Gribdae and Balgreddon Burn.
https://scotlandsplaces.gov.uk/digital-volumes/ordnance-survey-name-books/kirkcudbrightshire-os-name-books-1848-1851/kirkcudbrightshire-volume-154/5

I wonder if this IS the stone moving/drain building episode William Bell Jnr had reported to Hamilton.  It could be the story passed down to him from William Bell Snr, who obviously discussed it with the Ordinance Survey people in 1850 ish. It could be that William Jnr had garbled the story in memory. So I think it could be considered a possibility that the handled Gribdae item or linen-smoother was found during that time of those stones being moved i.e 1780s.