Topic: Unusual Vetro A retorti Glass Bowl barovier? salviati? Thankyou

[LEGSY]

Hi There,
im going to try and link you to an item I fell in love with last night on an auction site its unusual for me as ive never owned a good piece of murano to be honest wouldn't know if I had. Would anybody be able tell me the techniques involved for this piece I thought it looked a bit barovier or salviati and of a decent age a bit more antique if you like. Anyway I just love the gold lines and the red rim etc any info on it would be great, Have purchased item and is on its way but just trying to research a little bit...
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/ebayISAPI.dll?viewitem&item=262850094113

[KevinH]

It is "Vetro a retorti".

Individual cane lengths are set side by side and fused together to form the main structure of the item. Further embellishments can be added, such as the ruby prunts and rim of the plate / dish.

My "basic description" for the making of the canes in your item is:
Starting with a round, clear glass centre, two "gold aventurine" strips are added opposite each other, followed by adding more clear glass then two or more white "strips" in the same direction as the aventurine, then an outer coating of clear. When the whole mass is stretched in length it is also twisted - the tighter the twisting, the more complex the end result appears to be.

It is this sort of technique that links "ordinary" glass collectors with the rather "esoteric / nerdy" paperweight collectors (like me!). We all love a good bit of "retorti" (and "reticello" etc. ) 

[LEGSY]

Blimey Kevinh That's quick and such an interesting read too thank you very much for clearing that up never heard of this technique, Must be a hard process to master just had a google around and a few of the first examples ive read about say that this technique is high end or at least high prices. Would this be a process for an expert to create so to speak. Thank you for your reply Kevin.

[LEGSY]

Have been looking in the museo del vetro its a site that once you get the hang of can be usefull I searched under salviati and found several similar items to this, Saying similar in that ive seen pieces with red applied rims and the vivid strawberry prunts, Would it be safe to say that its a 19th century piece if not a salviati piece? although it has definite similarities to the work from them. I cant wait for it to arrive I never knew that murano glass could be so nicely made the only bits I seem to see in north of England are geode bowls which are not as refined as I believe this maybe.

[oldglassman]

Hi ,
             You might enjoy this short video showing a reticello plate being made.

http://renvenetian.cmog.org/object/reticello-platter

cheers ,

Peter.

[LEGSY]

Thanks peter watched a few of those short films what a lot of work to make one item im never gonna look at murano glass in the same way again used to think it was poor if honest but the work involved and the look of the pieces after, I think its amasing and see why people love it now at least, Thanks

[KevinH]

There is a great deal of difference between Murano "tourist wares" and "higher end" items ... and the price reflects the difference. Just like from many makers worldwide, there are "bread and butter" items and "top collectable" items, with a whole range of good, as well as average, items between.

[LEGSY]

Dish arrived in fine condition today very pleased with it, Would you think it is the bottom plate for a high sided bowl similar to finger bowl plate on Victorian lead glass in England? Ive also noticed it has a crown punty mark on the base ive read that they were used after around the last quarter of the 19th century but not before when they were only a single sharp broken scar left. It doesn't say how long this practice went on into the 20th century and beyond sadly for me it does feel of decent age a fair bit of wear and quite thinly blown. Any view as to dates?
Regards mike.

[glassobsessed]

It might well be an underplate. Tricky things to date just from the photos as similar will have been made for more than the last hundred years. I look for tiny specks of ash with a loupe, if you see lots of those tiny specks then you can assume from late C19 to mid 20C. A new furnace design introduced in the 1950s tends to eliminate most of that ash so you wont find much of it in the more modern items. The more of this kind of thing that you can get to handle the easier it will be to begin to distinguish new from old, the more modern formula glasses do have a different 'feel' that you can begin to pick up on after a while.

Crown punty, is that the one with four of five points?

[LEGSY]

Hi Thanks for replying yes this one has 4 marks on the scar but I think there can be more I read about it in the murano museum where you can watch the videos above a great site if you have an hour or two spare. Im guessing murano glass is a minefiled without labels but as you say being able to get an idea on some inside secret like with the ask is invaluable and really appreciated just had a look with my spy-glass and it does have small bits of black here and there not lots but here and there you can se the stuff?
Regards mike