Topic: Stuart Villiers Oleta ID please

[thomthom49]

Yesterday I purchased 160 glasses of varying sizes at an auction.  There are perhaps 10 with chips.  I have not yet unpacked and sorted them.  I bought them to pull a set of glasses for myself for personal use, and then sell the rest on to cover some of my initial costs.  I am not a collector.  I wish to post pictures in this thread with dimensions and weights so that they can be identified as to use: wine, claret, water whiskey, champagne etc.  I am unable to find any definitive information on individual glasses.  Is anyone willing to help me?  I am sure there are some of you who collect this pattern and will know exactly what i have.  Mine all seem to be marked on the bottom with Stuart England.  I also have some pieces which i have not seen on the internet (such as whisky glasses in two sizes) so they are perhaps rare.  Thanks for any help i receive. 

Will attach pics once get them unpacked and washed hopefully later today.

[Paul S.]

Hi - welcome to the GMB.               Just had a look at the Replacements.com (States) site for glass, and they show 'Oleta' - very attractive - and it looks to be the same as the cut design we call simply 'Villiers' - and that looks to be confirmed in my Miller's who say simply 'Villiers'.
Presumably there may well be some difference that I'm not aware of, so look forward to your pix and any info. to clarify the naming.   Perhaps correctly it's always been 'Villiers Oleta', and for ease it became a habit to shorten the name.             I wonder if the word Oleta has any particular meaning.
According to the Andy McConnell Miller's '20th- CENTURY GLASS' book, apparently it's a design that started life c. 1930  -  you probably already know that.

The Replacements.com site usually shows a few individual named shapes for different types of booze - but may well not include all variations.

[Lustrousstone]

This catalogue doesn't show your design but it may help with deciding what is what http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/thumbnails.php?album=938&page=1

[Paul S.]

I'm surprised we don't have 'Villiers' on the Board's picture archive  -  but suspect we may now be about to put that right

[thomthom49]

Well I have had the opportunity to unpack them.  The auction was wrong about how many were in the lot.  They said 160.  I actually have 197!  All are marked with acid etching Stuart England.  I have written below what i think they are but all help and knowledge is most appreciated.  The sizes of some do not seem to match anything i have seen online.  I would be great to have a catalogue from the period (pre 1950) that shows what Stuart named them along with their sizes.  Thanks for any and all contributions.
Starting on the left:
Water Goblet??  21cm x 9cm
Beer Glass??  20cm x 7cm
Red Wine??  18.5cm x 7cm
White Wine??  16.5cm x 7.3cm
Champagne Flute??  15.3cm x 6cm
Sherry?? 13.5cm x 6.2cm
Cordial?? 12cm x 7cm
Liqueur?? 12.5cm x 4.3cm
In the foreground:
Large juice/water?? 11cm x 7.5cm
Small juice?? 9cm x 6.5cm

[Paul S.]

Hi thomthom49  -  referencing your other post re the Stuart cut designs from Ross  -  I thought I'd used that link to the Ross/Stuart cut patterns in the past couple of years  -  perhaps not  -  and to make matters worse can't now find it in my own archives.         From memory haven't a clue as to whether it showed Villiers cut design  -  I think possibly not since Villiers appears not to be on the Board's archive gallery of cut designs.       I thought it was on the Board somewhere, but now don't know where.
Did anyone else save the details??               I have a feeling - but could be very wrong - that the book of factory patterns, donated by Ross, pre-dated the birth of Villiers (sounds like 'The Birth of Venus' ) which according to McConnell was c. 1930  -  so on that basis Villiers wouldn't have appeared in the book from Ross.
As with much of Stuart's material from earlier in the C20, the factory were mostly Registering shapes rather than cut designs - which is rather unhelpful for us now.

How did you know that the glasses from the auction were the Villiers pattern  -  did the auction house list them as such?              In the McConnell/Miller's book it appears that the factory No. for Villiers is 25404  -  although that's not really of any help here, since we've no way of accessing Stuart's original factory patterns  -  they may be at Broadfield House, but not sure.

Unfortunately, post 1930 cut glass seems currently to have a minority following on the GMB  -  that's not to say there isn't a market for the high end deco designs, which have always been very collectible, but there's little interest in run of the mill patterns.   

As to working out which shape fits which sort of booze for the glasses you do have  -  would recommend you search the Replacement.com site - in the Stuart section.            You probably won't find all that you want under the heading of Villiers, but if you search other patterns then you can probably assess what you have from the various shapes in that archive site.           Sorry  -  we seem to be on a rather negative run for you.

P.S.    meant to suggest that this thread might perhaps be moved to the British and Irish section. [Mod: moved as suggested]

[thomthom49]

Paul.  I found the glasses online by looking at Stuart patterns on e-bay i think.  Auctioneer only listed them as Stuart Crystal (lot of 160)  There were actually 197 though 19 have minor to major chips.  After pulling what i want to keep i will have about 90 to sell on.  Almost all that i have are pre 1950 when the mark changed.  I have discerned most of the uses though about three still puzzle me.  Primarily the extra large water goblet which is larger than the one listed on Replacements Ltd.  One nice think about Replacements though is that they have a research dept which claims to be able to identify the use of each glass for free.  I have sent them pictures with dimensions of each glass so am currently waiting for their reply.  you have mentioned the board has no pictures for the Villiers cut.  Does the board keep a photo gallery of designs and if so do you want photos of these for the board.

Also in your estimation what would be the most effective way of selling on those glasses i do not wish to keep.  E-bay, Replacements Ltd, other sites etc?

[Paul S.]

Hi - glad to hear you are having success with the majority of your glasses  -  as a personal note, I've been of the opinion for some time that since GMB members use Replacements.com, frequently, as a resource to establish i.d. for cut patterns, then R.com would be free to use whatever patterns I've posted here.              However, there's always the serious matter of copyright of pix, so I can already hear the dissenters reaching for their keyboards, so it doubtless wouldn't work

As for your individual unknown shapes, you might post pix here - always possible someone will have the answer as to use  ...........  though of course you may well get this info. from R.com  .........   fingers crossed.

The Board does have a Glass Gallery with substantial photo archive not just of cut patterns, but includes backstamps, labels, pressed glass designs, Trade Marks, Board of Trade Registration data etc.  -  all donated for free by current and past members.           Grateful if you are able to post pix of a wine glass and whiskey perhaps showing Villiers pattern  ..........  we will need a good clear full size image and suggest you take pictures against a uniform dark background with suitable lighting - we often get some delightful rustic scenes of gardens, fence posts, curtains, cats, sky views etc.         Photographing clear glass well isn't easy - you may need to have a few tries  -  images with suitable lighting is probably the least easy part - avoiding glare is part of the problem.  Try a large sheet of black or dark grey paper as background.

Regret I don't sell glass so not the best person to ask ..   if you sell on ebay already then I'd have thought that was the answer  -  sending to the States sounds too involved  -  you might of course put the surplus back into auction.   Perhaps others here might offer their suggestions - but whatever, wish you luck and look forward to seeing your pix of Villiers.  

[brucebanner]

If you buy a copy of this catalogue which is late 1920's very early 30's it explains most of the shapes in the various sets it shows.  It has a pic of a basic set of your pattern so it dates back until at least then, regards Chris.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Stuart-Crystal-1930s-Product-catalogue/352205035117?hash=item52010e566d:g:TegAAOSwxIRZ9y8q

[thomthom49]

Thank you Chris.  I presume the pic you showed is the only one?  Do any of the other descriptions offer dimensions and usage?
Thanks
Thom