Topic: Georgian dated rummer 1801

[brucebanner]

Any thought's on this one would be welcome as they are hardly ever inscribed. It looks a genuine old glass, i think it says "of Albanny but i can not make out the first bit.

Thick walled and looks like a deceptive glass with base wear and a rough pontil.

It measures 3 1/2 inches in height with a rim diameter of 3 inches.

Regards Chris.

[brucebanner]

pic of base.

[cagney]

Thick base, etc.  brings to mind a "Toasting" glass. Same period as date scratched into surface. Seems a popular custom at the time was to "rap"
the glass on the table top as a form of acknowledgement/applause. Looks to be a period piece.......cagney

[Paul S.]

it's unusually short for a rummer Chris, and has more the appearance of a tavern/pub glass with its thick walls and stem etc., but for what beverage it was intended I'm not sure - rum, port perhaps - but doesn't look to have been used for hot toddy - the bottom of the bowl looks too smooth and shiny.                Could it be a firing glass?  not the usual shape for such, and my opinion is not a deceptive.     perhaps a childs measure for gin, or made as an apprentice piece ?

my other rather pessimistic thoughts are ...............   U shaped bowls with very thick capstan type stems occur a bit later than 1801 - and of course the proverbial rough/sharp pontil scars can be very misleading regarding date, as they occur during much of the C19, especially on pub type glasses.

[brucebanner]

Thanks both for your replies, the base is flat and you can just feel the rough pontil so could be for toasting. I know a date could mean anything on a glass, the capstan stem must of evolved at some point though.

[Paul S.]

it's a shame that we don't get more people coming in on these things.      The stem on this one  -  in my opinion  -  although close, doesn't quite make it as a capstan shape though it's not a million miles away.            It may well be that what I see as a tavern/pub piece, such as this - with its less than refined proportions etc. doesn't appeal to the serious collectors.

For my money this is an interesting glass in that - size wise - it falls between the genuine rummers which are all larger, and the smaller glasses not intended for rummer type drinks.

Appreciate that this is not your area Peter (Oldglassman), but if you've a moment to spare I think we'd very much appreciate your opinion as to approximate age and possible use.

[brucebanner]

Yes Paul i can only count on your second opinion really, 1800 onwards, i'm limited to 1970's and earlier books plus a bit of experience.

[Paul S.]

so what happened to my first opinion                When you think of the social history of drinking glasses, and the personal ownership stories attached to so many of these pieces, they represent an endearing area to collect, and as Peter is always telling us - they can be used.
Genuinely datable glasses - pre 1820 - are perhaps getting scarce, but there are still a lot of lesser lights out there, and can only assume that lack of interest stems much from difficulty with accurate dating, and fear of ending up with a copy.              Deciding whether something is 1810, or an 1910 copy, might be an off-putting reason, and then again there are a lot of folk who will only collect bang to rights pieces with gilt edged datability because they need to know what it is they've just spent £250, or more, on.          Perhaps folk should be more adventurous with their purchases, and less worried about exactness

This is an intriguing piece  -  it has all the appearance of a rummer, but seems to fall below the miniumum size of such a glass.         It has a tavern/pub appearance, and lacks any dull bowl to indicate hot toddy use, and pound to a penny that you won't get any further with it's history, unfortunately.            I don't collect Continental pieces intended for similar use, so no idea if middle Europe made similar shaped glasses in the C19  -  would assume so but assumptions are dangerous things.

[KevinH]

I once thought of "old" drinking glasses as being an interesting area to start a "proper" collection.

I went to a few auctions where a variety of glasses etc. were on offer - and I found it very difficult to know why some items cost so much more than others. I bought a copy of Bickerton's reference book - and began to realise how complex it might be to make a decent collection!

I eventually settled with paperweights!

I can offer nothing more than those brief comments.

[oldglassman]

Hi ,
         Sorry been out of the country glass hunting, not a lot to add, it looks early 19th c to me and as said possibly a tavern glass for spirits, if the glass is very thick it may have been meant to be cut as a salt or something like and escaped the cutting dept

cheers

Peter.