Topic: Stevens & Williams I presume !

[keith]

The first piece has a registered number for S & W's so may I presume the pair below are also ? 

[luckytom]

The first piece looks like S&W matsunoke so its should have a blackberry prunt over the ponitl with a hand etched "Rd No 15353" if it is. The second piece not sure of but if it also has a blackberry prunt under the base it could be S&W too of that era.

Regards

[Paul S.]

very nice Keith  -  what is the Rd. No. you do have  -  is it 15353 dated 18.10.1884, or perhaps 403585 dated 16.01.1903.          Do you think you're missing what appear to be the wooden stands as shown in the book? - but perhaps they're not wood.                Certainly they produced pieces in a tall ish chimney sort of shape similar to your second pair, but if yours aren't marked with an Rd. No. then you may have to live with some doubt unless we can find others of an identical appearance that do carry the appropriate Rd. No.

to some extent I'm guessing, since I've never owned such Registered pieces from S. & W.             The earlier of the two Registrations was intended to protect 'Applique decoration for Mat-su-no-ke' art glass  -  and the later Registered design related to 'special applied decoration similar to Mat-su-no-ke (The Spirit of the Pine Tree)'.      This written distinction, to my mind, leaves me a tad unclear as to exactly what the difference in appearance actually is.

Apologies - this has crossed with the previous post.

[luckytom]

Keith if your in the United States, i have a feeling thesecould be related to Frederick Carder. He started Steuben when he went there and some of his designs are very similar to Thomas Webb and S&W around that period.

[keith]

This one just has the reg. number 15353 no prunt, I don't think the stands came with them, did they ? and I'm not in the States just a few  miles from Stourbridge. As for Matsu-no-ke I'm having trouble working out how it translates as 'spirit of the pine tree' heard this myself but the Japanese for spirit is not 'Matsu' and the word for tree is 'Ki'  Japanese can be confusing  This one has the prunt and reg number, latest find 

[Paul S.]

you're losing me Keith   -  please be gentle - I'm fairly new      We seem to have too many  'This ones' - can we please refer to each of the three pix individually - I think that will help.  

What is the Rd. No. on the piece in the first picture  -  is it the same as the one you've just posted i.e. 15353?          When you say 'prunt', are you referring to the large clear glass foot or the applied clear decorations?

My most recent dictionary defines Matsu-no-ke  as  ""Glass processing technique consisting of the application, on vases and containers, of clear crystal or superficial decorations with iridescent effects, representing the knotty branches of an ornamental pinetree dubbed matsu in the Japanese culture; invented by Frederick Carder for Stevens & Williams Ltd. in 1880, it was continuously used by the Steuben Glass Works after 1922.""

I'm really not sure about the stands  -  just that they appear in the book for this Rd. No.

[keith]

Sorry Paul, the first piece has 15353 on the base and no prunt, the pair in the second image have neither, the last one has both, image of prunt to the base....

[keith]

Right, after a single malt induced bit of research....'Matsu' is Japanese for pinetree, 'no' indicates possessive and 'ke' means, among other things, feelings, so spirit of the pine tree is about right, time for bed 

[Paul S.]

    -  thanks Keith  -  obviously you're now drinking the right sort of single malt.                 They're nice pieces, of course, though regret my first hand experience of such material is not just limited  -  it's virtually non-existent, so apart from discussing the book info. relating to the Rd. No., my knowledge of other aspects is going to fall short of what you need.
But as I say - they're attractive -  I assume there's nothing in Gulliver to help?      ....   though perhaps you don't have that book, and neither do I now.

[keith]

Hello Paul, can't remember seeing anything similar in Gulliver, will look again