Topic: Unusual Victorian multi-color white cased vase ???

[LEGSY]

 
Hopefully Flyingfree will see this as it is the vase i mentioned on his post
i finally decided to buy another vase for my collection of vases which is growing
nicely I purchased this one as it has a great weight and vibrant color the maker
i feel maybe Bohemia or English it is 8.5" and heavy at 1 kilo the inner white casing
etc i'm guessing makes this a Victorian age of vase? I will make better pictures of
the base and rim in morning...Anybody know of the maker of these heavy weight
i guess imitating stone decor i have seen Loetz/Harrach also made similar designs..
Thank you for looking
Also worth a mention the rim edge has been very slightly chamfer off it

[chopin-liszt]

The chamfer you mention on the edge of the rim has a proper name - it is called an arris. 

[LEGSY]

 

[LEGSY]

Seems to be a precious stone representation many companies
producing similar designs Loetz Made Carneol Glass among others
like Onyx and so did Harrach to name a couple seems to have some
remnants of decoration maybe somebody has furiously clean the vase
clean of gilt or some decoration in the past ...Just speculating etc

[Paul S.]

the word arris describes only the sharp edge formed by the intersection of two surfaces  -  'arris' doesn't describe the flat/chamfered cut surface on Dan's vase.          Dan's cut and polished top is typical of Continental glass where the piece is finished from the top.

Surprisingly there's nothing really in Gulliver like this, though I suppose it could be English, but as Dan says more likely to be one of the Continental makers, though whether it's C19 I've no idea  -   the Grover's 'Art Glass Nouveau' isn't helpful either.

Vases tend to get used -  does this piece have the sort of wear that might suggest one hundred years plus in age -  is there much crud, internally, in the bottom?      Is there much base wear, and are there contact marks around the midriff part of the body?             I don't know that the inner white casing is a guarantee of 'Victorian'           Try using raking/slanting light across the surface to see if the 'decoration' appears clearer, though I'd be surprised if a vase of this colourway would have been gilded etc.

[ahremck]

Not my area of expertise, but Welz came to mind when I first saw it.  Hope it helps.

Ross

[chopin-liszt]

Museum of London Glass Lexicon. p. 28, item no 5220; arris edge.

"A small bevel, of width not exceeding 1/16 in, at an angle of approximately 45⁰
 to the surface of the glass. The finish can be ground, smoothed, or polished."


https://web.archive.org/web/20101224211618/http://www.museumoflondonarchaeology.org.uk/NR/rdonlyres/FCBB7609-4C5A-48A1-9082-F42EBA062F4B/0/post92molglass_glos.pdf

[Paul S.]

  I'm sorry, but they are wrong.             If it's 'A small bevel', then why do they need to call it an arris, they seem to be hedging their bets        ……….  a canted plane (ground or otherwise), at angles of usually less, or more than, 90 degrees, has always been known as a bevel, or sometimes a chamfer (mostly in woodwork, I think).

I suspect they are confusing a very small bevel with an arris, which is why they comment 'of width not exceeding 1/16 of an inch' - they are allowing for intersections of planes to be interrupted by a narrow plane, which might be bevelled to the tune of 1/16 of an inch.     
So by definition it isn't an arris, but a bevel albeit rather narrow  -   and is simply another plane surface, not an arris  -  for which the definition is the intersection of two plane surfaces, without anything in between.
Most cut tops will have a small bevel on their insides  -  it prevents potential chipping or cut fingers, which would likely happen with an arris.

of course, you can describe something however you like provided people understand what it is you're speaking about.

[chopin-liszt]

I'm going to stick with my source until evidence proves otherwise.

[Paul S.]

what for me is the museum's weakness in their definition, apart from the use of two words to describe the same feature, is their choice of '1/16 of an inch' for their arris.

Who decided to re-define the meaning of arris  - it's very wrong IMHO for non-science museums whose remit is art, ethnicity and related cultural matters to dip their toes in the world of technology and create a new meaning based on nothing more than arbitrary guesswork.
After all, why 1/16 of an inch  -  why not 1mm, 3mm 1/8 inch - or we might suggest ten thou., 20 thou. -  where do we draw the line at personal interpretation.

As we know, it wouldn't be practical for pieces like this - finished at the top - to be without a bevel  -  the consequence would be chips and fleabites galore.
 
I believe they're moving soon, though I don't know to where.