Topic: A Deceptive or Toasting Glass

[Laird]

Here's one that puzzles me. It is a 'toastmaster' or deceptive glass, nice and chunky, heavy with cut flutes.
Double knop on a raised foot, and striation marks around the bowl. I believe I can detect a slight thickening at a point on the rim where the bowl would have been trimmed with shears. The pontil is polished, with a small scar left behind.
The shape suggests to me 18th century, but is it? Opinions?

I have another couple of deceptives which I will post.

[Paul S.]

of course, you may well be correct, but …………………….               of some concern is the fact that of all the toastmaster glasses in Bickerton (C18 material. plus a little more), none has slice/panel cutting like this one  -  engraving yes, but not this sort of real slice cutting (not flutes possibly).
The other query for attribution to C18 is the height of the actual bowl  -  most are noticeably shorter.

The knops, striation marks and rim blip (where the shears begin and end), don't in themselves indicate exclusively C18.

Agree this is a difficult 'deceptive' to pigeonhole'  -  might be very late C18/early C19, or possibly nearer to 1840-1850.

As usual the silence from others is deafening, unfortunately  -  whether it's possible to hope Peter (oldglassman) might look in  -  not sure.

However, this is an interesting and unusual deceptive glass, and a good addition to anyone's collection - nice piece.

Let's hope the other pieces you mention are easier to date.

 

[Laird]

Thanks Paul - I very much appreciate your always pertinent and helpful comments.
Attributing makers and dates to such items is a struggle. if only they had put hallmarks on them, as in silver, but I guess I'm not the first to make that observation.
I like the shape of this one, somewhat different from others I have seen, and I thought that might be an indicator for an earlier date attribution, but I don't know enough, by far, to go out on a limb proposing such a conclusion.
Using Wilkinson as my guide, I thought the foot was a fairly good match for Fig. 1 (4,5) which he dates as 1730 to 1780. He also says that "the shearing mark, to a greater or less degree, is on every handmade drinking glass made in England before 1830. Should no mark be visible it has either had the top trimmed to remove a chip, or has been made after 1830, when the wooden end tool or woods had superseded the steel tool or pucelas".
This all suggested to me a possible pre-1830 date - but that's a shot in the dark.

Hopefully, I'll post another couple of different examples over the weekend.