Topic: Etched Tumble Up / Night Bottle Set Help

[justjeff]

Hi all! Would love some help trying to ID this etched tumble up set. North America hasn't been of much assistance and it crossed my mind that maybe it's because this is a European piece. Appears to be acid etched with gold bands. Bottle height is 6 3/4" with a 2 5/8" base diameter. Tumbler 3 7/8" tall. Thanks so much for any help that can be offered.

[Paul S.]

I expect we'd all like to know Jeff  -  but these things we common to a prolific extent in Europe and possibly your side too  -  made throughout the second half of the C19 and probably most of the first half of the C20 as well.            The only, rather obvious comment I can make, is that unlike a lot of machine acid etching we see here showing very fine geometric patterning created by needlepoint - this one is of the less common sort, though possibly still machine made.                       The much coarser, wider line of the image, as seen on your pieces, are similar to those designs created mechanically by John Northwood (c. 1860s)  -  not that this set might remotely have that age  -  just that yours is unlike the usual stuff we see, and Northwood (U.K.) did produce work that appears similar to this piece. 

The gilding would be untypical of C19 sets from the U.K., so this might suggest something vastly more modern and from Continental Europe rather than the U.K.
What if any is the extent of wear under the main body  -  the fact that gilding remains v.g. condition would also point to a modern set.             
I suppose this set might have been made manually either through a resist with stiletto, or perhaps just an applied stencil and then acid dipped.
Whether any of the original machines remain in use I'm not sure  - perhaps not.

Sorry this really isn't of any help  -  hopefully others might contribute something useful

[justjeff]

Thanks for the reply Paul. Even if it doesn't give me an ID, it gives me things to look at and new terms to learn.... such as "resist with stiletto". The gilding is indeed in good shape and base wear is minimal but is present. I didn't realize manufacturers were still making these sets which is why I presumed it to have some age on in... pre-1950's... though now that I re-read your post that is what you already suggested So if I'm understanding correctly, older manufacturers did use acid etching or is it that the mechanical etching was just less precise? Thanks again for your reply!

[Paul S.]

I think the general method in the early years of the invention, was simply to apply a resist of some kind  -  a bitumen coating perhaps - then place the glass into the machine where the needles were actuated in a similar fashion to the Victorian music boxes  -  copper templates replacing thin flexible fingers - and depending on the shape of design of the template, so the needles would scribe the required pattern through the resist.                  The glass was rotated manually by the office boy, and once done the glass was dipped in the acid.                      This is a complex process and my explanation doesn't remotely convey the real process in detail  -  it's worth reading up to understand properly - and to see some of the amazing and stunning images created on glass by this method.
We're talking here of mechanical machine etching  -  machines that were driven manually and which created repeatable geometric images on glass  -  some time later a less expensive method appears to have used acid impregnated transfers  -  then again later still some inexpensive glass was decorated by sand blasting through a stencil -  the difference in finish should be easy to differentiate.

Likely the most commonly seen form of decoration of acid etched needlepoint machine etching is the Greek key ornamentation  -  found commonly on inexpensive drinking glasses etc.               Presumably the coarser line imaging was produced similarly but not with needles.

However, this set IMHO is far more recent, despite the small amount of wear, and it doesn't necessarily follow that your set was machine created  -  might be some form of simple manual transfer and acid dipping.
I'd plump for eastern Europe - but can't offer anything to substantiate that - it's just that gilding bands were/are a common decorative feature seen on glass from that area of the world  -  and my thoughts on age might suggest post 1950.

How did you acquire this set, and was there a description of any kind accompanying the glass?             

[justjeff]

No provenance on this piece. It was acquired at a thrift store along with a nice Pairpoint "Murillo" patterned bowl. Definitely a nice score for the former... the latter to be determined

[Ekimp]

Hi, John Northwood’s decoration looks similar to this from a distance but he used a visibly different technique to that employed on your item.

Northwood used machine etching only to produce the outline of the pattern. Once the outline was produced, the acid and resist was washed off, then the frosting between the lines was applied by mechanical abrasion or latterly by acid frosting, both manual processes. Reference British Glass 1800-1914 by Hajdamach, pages 184/185.

Looking at the slightly poor definition on your piece, especially in the borders, I would be suspicious that a printing process has been used - that the frosting is something applied to the surface rather than taken from it. I have been caught out by printed frosting once (it could be scraped off with a knife) and it looked very like acid frosting (...or even engraving in poor eBay photos  )