Topic: Old cut glass jug, English maybe ?

[keith]

10 inches tall, lots of wear and an old repair with a crack to the body by the handle, English or not ?

[Paul S.]

Hi Keith  ....   some people might also call this a wine ewer -  and on balance taking into account a whole raft of issues, my opinion is yes it's an English made piece.      IMHO, what this one appears to be doing is copying the Irish style from c. 1800 - 1820 - the age of exuberance as the books say - whether this particular piece could be described as 'Anglo-Irish' would depend more on when it was made  -  so really not sure on that point.             Many manufacturers of cut glass in particular removed themselves from England to Ireland in the late C18 - early C19 to avoid the British government's increasing tax on glass houses.    This piece shows classical lines  -  suppose the ewer design has been around for a long time, and jugs and ewers were a commonly mde shape.                           
The high swan's neck handle, attached top down (the staple repair indicates one of the probable reasons this method of attachment was reversed toward the last third of the C19).   The saw tooth rim on a beaked lip -   deep prismatic/step cutting above a large field of relief diamonds  -  short round stem below a collar, and a circular foot with profuse radial cutting.           Wilkinson suggests the 24 point star as c. 1830 - 1840  -  and the 32 point star as c. 1840 - 1850.               The earlier stars - i.e. 16 points for c. 1820 - 1830 don't appear to match with the greater number of points on this piece, so it all becomes rather confusing.
Provenance/attribution is impossible for these things, and even experts argue as to the origin of many of such pieces .............  colour of glass, depth of mitres ..... it's really only the known pieces with pedigree that are dead certs.

Having said all the above, there is the very real possibility that this piece is a late C19 or first half C20 copy  -  wear on glass of that age is still going to be considerable and can mislead - relief diamonds and rims in particular suffer the most.                   Many of the famous glass houses we speak of here knocked out prodigious quantities of copies of C18 and early C19 designs and styles in the 1930s - copies that now would fool most of us as to age  -  they copied Irish and English patterns and styles from 1750 onwards  -  how was this one described when you bought it?       
             

[Ekimp]

Hi, there is one in McConnell’s The Decanter on page 234 that is a very similar shape but completely different style of cutting (most of it is frosted). It has a similar capstan type stem, neck ring and handle. The body between neck ring and stem is similar except the fastest part looks to be towards the top. For that one he says ‘1855-65. Attributed: George Bacchus, Birmingham’.

[Paul S.]

Hi - regret I have only the first edition of Andy McConnell's 'Decanter' book, and there aren't any ewers/jugs shown on page 234  -  assume it's the revised edition that has the picture  -  this presumably is still the chapter on Anglo-Irish material.      There are similar examples shown in Phelps Warren's book 'Irish Glass'  -  though not identical pieces.        Unsure what is meant by 'neck ring' re the jug here -  understand what a neck ring is but that feature doesn't occur on the style of jug/ewer we're discussing which carries all that prismatic/step work.        'Rings' usually came in three's  -  you know the sort I mean - and they are common on Anglo-Irish material as can be seen in Andy McConnell's book.      Pity you can't photo the picture from your book and post here.
In view of the differences you mention, do you think the date quoted can be applied reliably to Keith's jug?     

[keith]

Phew, lots of info' thanks, couple of collectors from another forum reckon it could be as early as 1810 and Anglo-Irish was also mentioned, no description from the seller, need to read more on this subject, ta 

[Paul S.]

   -  well, someone loved it enough to fix it with a staple/rivet, and that alone makes it an antique.    Sadly Keith, dating these things is almost a non-starter as to accuracy  -  we all want our glass to be as old as possible, but sometimes it just doesn't work.   This is attractive and someone took a lot of trouble in making and cutting it  -  anyway, now you must buy some claret, or should that be Scotch

[Ekimp]

Yes, my book is the 2018 version, the section that shows the jug is ‘Early to Mid-Victorian Decanters’.

On the narrowest part of the neck of Keith’s jug (and the one in the book) there looks to be something similar to a single applied neck ring - it doesn’t look to be part of the cutting? I don’t know if it is applied or if that is the correct term for that feature on a jug/ewer.

I thought it might be interesting that very similar shape jug is attributed as English in the book, but wouldn’t date Keith’s jug by it although it could be another clue to investigate.

[Paul S.]

thanks - obviously much of the layout was changed for the 2018 edition, so no idea as to which item it might be in the older book.      I think Keith's wording was a tad short on description, so unsure about the neck ring, but you could be right.

[keith]

I'll see if I can get Mr Mc Connell to comment on it 

[Paul S.]

a tad before my time I think, but he did contribute to the Board once-upon-a-time  .................   sounds like the beginning of a fairy story ...........   now, are you sitting comfortably