Topic: Frosted decanter.

[flying free]

and does this bowl have the same cut pattern as yours?:

https://www.kollerauktionen.ch/en/88151-0102------1144-schale-mit-bronzemontur-_aux-1144_82054.html?RecPos=1196

[Ekimp]

Yes, of course, photo of decanter base added but I struggled to get it to show well. It is an eight point star with smaller fan cuts in between. The fan cuts do not intersect at the centre of the eight point star.

The cut pattern of the leaves and stem on my bowl look very similar to your linked example except on my bowl, the central stem is a cut groove that has not been polished, photo added. The linked example looks like a polished cut.

[flying free]

That's not a bad match is it?  yours also doesn't have the little tulip stem in between each arch but otherwise I think that's a good similarity.
And your bowl has a 32 point star cut on the foot.  I like that cylindrical foot.  Contemporary and 'spare' -  stylish.

I can't come up with any 'matt' glass effects like that for Baccarat unfortunately but I think that's a good quality bowl.  Is it heavy for size and does it ring nicely?




I like the cut on the foot of the decanter.  That's quite elaborate for the base of something that can't even be seen from the inside like a bowl might be.

[neilh]

Nothing on this thread is the 1868 Percival Vickers Registered pattern for the "Vienna" suite, which looks like this:

[flying free]

Ooh that's lovely to see Neil.
Thanks

Copying link to Paul's original post for the pattern:
http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,70868.msg395598.html#msg395598

The date might be a steer on your bowl Ekimp?

[Paul S.]

thanks Neil.              Sorry, do we read that as  "a bum steer' or is that steer as in 'steer toward' as in guidance??

[Ekimp]

That's not a bad match is it?  yours also doesn't have the little tulip stem in between each arch but otherwise I think that's a good similarity.
And your bowl has a 32 point star cut on the foot.  I like that cylindrical foot.  Contemporary and 'spare' -  stylish.

I can't come up with any 'matt' glass effects like that for Baccarat unfortunately but I think that's a good quality bowl.  Is it heavy for size and does it ring nicely?

I like the cut on the foot of the decanter.  That's quite elaborate for the base of something that can't even be seen from the inside like a bowl might be.

Yes, you’re right about the decanter, I hadn’t given the base much thought, it is quality. Perhaps when the butler is pouring you get a peek.

Yes not a bad match on the bowl, maybe they are from the same source but it might’ve just been fashion as shown by the Percival Vickers design. As you say, might give a clue to a date. Thanks for looking, I don’t think I’ll give it back to the charity shop . The bowl does feel quite heavy and rings nicely when flicked.

Thanks for showing the Percival Vickers example Neil, it looks like the frosting or matting on that is similar to mine, I think I can see circular scratches. The 1868 date (from Paul for the PV design) might well fit nicely with my bowl...unless it is a later copy....

[neilh]

There are a few of these frond patterns in 1860s pressed glass. Molineaux Webb did a couple which we can date to 1863 and 1865.

Edward Moore did this one from a similar period

[Ekimp]

Regarding dating of my bowl, I believe it actually post dates 1890. This is due to the ‘Intaglio’ style of cutting making up the plant design, specifically the leaves where the cut is almost flat against the surface. Intaglio decoration was developed by John Northwood in the early 1890s and is discussed here: http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,68028.msg380843.html

If the bowl had been made earlier than this then I think the cuts would have been ‘V’ shapes, like in the moulded bowls that neilh has shown and the Rd. 217227 design drawing from Paul S., all from the 1860s.

Photo of the ‘intaglio’ decoration on my bowl from reply 31: http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=70868.0;attach=243966

[Ekimp]

Some interesting documented evidence of obscuring with an abrasive, especially the first one as the other two relate to plate glass:

Encyclopaedia Britannica a Dictionary of Arts, Sciences and Literature (American reprint) 1879, Page 591 lower half of right hand column - Flint Glass Cutting, Engraving and Etching. ‘Ground or obscured glass is made by rubbing the surface with sand and water’. It talks about etching with hydrofluoric acid as a separate process. There is a footnote for the section that says ‘A large proportion of the obscuring of the commoner varieties of glass and of the obscured ornamentation on plate and sheet as well as on flint glass is now produced by means of Tilghman’s sand blasting’.
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=7Mc8UPnDDQUC&pg=PA591&dq=obscured+glass+emery+powder&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwj7seWT4u3zAhX3RUEAHSF1BoMQ6AF6BAgKEAM#v=onepage&q=obscured%20glass%20emery%20powder&f=false

The American stationer, volume 37, 1895, page 494 & 496. Relating to plate glass, talks about acid etching, fuming, and obscuring by hand grinding with emery powder.
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=0VJYAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA496&dq=etch+glass+emery+powder&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiZ7-bY1-3zAhVLecAKHTyZB-44FBDoAXoECAMQAw#v=onepage&q=etch%20glass%20emery%20powder&f=false

Making glass focusing screens, obscured by grinding with emery. The Dictionary of Photography for the Amateur and Professional Photographer 1889, page 74.
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=OQAYAQAAMAAJ&pg=PA74&dq=ground+glass+emery+powder&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwin1tzr3O3zAhWznVwKHR5JD1kQ6AF6BAgDEAM#v=onepage&q=ground%20glass%20emery%20powder&f=false

Presumably the focusing screens had a uniform finish without obvious scratches.