Topic: Edward Bolton 'Grace Darling' boat flower holder Reg. 23527 & 39414 - 1885.

[Paul S.]

a common and well known design and about which I'd imagine shed loads of ink has been spilled over the years.    This one came via a charity shop earlier in the week for couple of pounds, so bought it as I'd long since parted with the example I did have.     However, I've forgotten why these things carry both Reg. Nos., so grateful if someone is able to remind me please.     Both Reg. Nos. occur about a year after the diamond lozenge proper, ceased, so I don't have pix or Register data which might have helped.       As usual with these things the name GRACE DARLING appears at the stern of the boat, under which I think the No. 39414 is seen, usually, though this boat lacks that No.  -  possibly as this pressing was from a v. worn mould.           On the inside floor of the boat, midway along and viewed from the stern there appears the name - GRACE DARLING - under which is the word BOAT - under that is the No. 23527.           
Unfortunately, the V. & A, archive seems not to explain as to why there are two Reg. Nos.  -  the museum wrongly speaks of these Nos. as 'Diamond Registration marks  ...... "
This slightly earlier Reg. No. would occur somewhere around mid March 1885.           Am sure someone like Bernard Cavelot must have commented somewhere in past years.

I'm guessing, but likely one No. covers the shape and the other the daisy and button surface decoration.   thanks for looking.

[NevB]

Apparently the two numbers relate to the Grace Darling name of the piece and the design. Here's a link to my uranium glass one.



https://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,70346.msg391672.html#msg391672

[Paul S.]

thanks for the information and links.   -  So, we're saying that Ed. Bolton Registered the name Grace Darling, under either 23527 or 39414 (probably the former), and the shape is covered by the later No.               I could be wrong, but don't recall anything similar under pressed pieces where a real name was so Registered  -  though the late C19 does contain some v. well known names which appear on certain pressed pieces  -  Gladstone and Peabody, on plates, for example.      Do you know if, in those instances, there were two Registration Nos. in a similar way to the subject here?                 Of course. the tragedy of the loss of her life became a cause celebre at the time and public feeling of sadness for her heroism was immense, and that may have driven Ed. Bolton to create the Registration in the way you say (for altruistic reasons, of course).         I did hunt - albeit not very thoroughly - before posting, but couldn't find information in line with your answer, and was already wondering why the earlier of the two Nos. isn't listed by authors like Slack, Thompson and Sheilagh Murray - surely they must have been aware of the very obvious connection between the Registration for this boat (for which they mostly offer the No. 39414 only, for the shape), and as you say the other Registration for the lady's name.        I think we all assume 39414 is for the boat, leaving 23527 for the name - though quite why the time lag before the later Registration I've no idea.           Of course, that info. may well be in your link and I've missed seeing it.       Again, I may have missed seeing provenance for these details on the Board somewhere, but I'm inclined to think that some form of positive id in the way of a Kew picture - to corroborate your answer - will be of great interest to folk who look in here, so a visit to TNA to acquire some images will be really worthwhile.    I'm assuming that the Board's pressed archive must have pix of this Ed. Bolton boat.                 Having looked briefly through the above authors, the absence of information on Edward Bolton is deafening.         
Thanks again, and yes your uranium example is stunning  -  very envious. 

P.S.    out of curiosity, has anyone been to Kew recently  -  are they more or less open for business??  -  I can of course phone, but just wondered.

[NevB]

I can't find the post where I found the information about the registration numbers but I must have read it somewhere  . I think possibly E.Bolton saw an opportunity to register the name under 23527 with the intention of using it later and it wasn't until nine months after that they registered the design of the boat. I don't know if this was been common practice at the time. As I mentioned the design was probably inspired by one by Hobbs Brockunier. 

[Paul S.]

thanks Nev.    assuming I can get to TNA in the coming week or so, then hopefully that will resolve the matter.    thanks again.

[neilh]

The Bolton boats are absolutely everywhere even though the works closed within a few years of its production. I'm sure the mould was sold on and the majority of them were made in the northeast, maybe Davidson?

[Paul S.]

thanks - an interesting suggestion Neil  -  there certainly are comments in the books suggesting this design/shape is the most frequently seen, though as to someone else using the mould I've no idea.              Before I go marching off to TNA, have you been there and have you looked at the image of 23527 in the Kew archives ?

[neilh]

No I haven't got that one. I need to go back to check on a few myself, but not if masks are still required, my glasses steam up!

[Paul S.]

mine do too  -  not always for the same reason though.     Appears they're open and business is almost back to normal, so I'll probably book for a session for next week some time.     I've tried phoning without success, and can't see from their web site what the current mask status is.       I don't need specs ordinarily for desk work, so having to wear both not an issue for me.

[NevB]

This post has some more information, it is old so most of the links don't work.


https://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,5051.0.html