Topic: possible cut scent bottle

[Paul S.]

£2 of mystery, at least to me.    I assumed a scent of some description - and missing the stopper, but it's intriguing - cutting that's stylistically not C20, and a star cut base that is more early C19 according to Wilkinson  -  possibly a C19 smelling salts bottle?   
The cutting is simple and poor quality - most of the mitres show strong evidence of grinding marks and the two cross cuts - which create the four relief diamonds have been formed so poorly that the wheel has caught the opposite side of the mitre, at the beginning and end of the cut  -  I've tried to indicate with a purple marker.           The walls are flared outward slightly toward the base.

But, if nothing else it's a very good example of how mitre cut stars on older glass were made such that each radial arm was created by two passes of the wheel and not one as in modern glass - certainly in the C20 and likely much of the second half of the C19.   
Photographing this thing was difficult, but hope you can see how the tips of the arms lack symmetry  - one mitre cut exceeds the other in length - only slightly but it's noticeable.   
The amount of wear is prodigious toward the outer part of the base - an absence of marks - and it contains a little wax that suggests in recent times it appears to have doubled as a 'tea light'.
Do folks think it is a scent, albeit with an unusually wide opening.             Sorry the pix aren't too clever. 

[flying free]

I'm not a scent bottle collector but would say no if it has what you feel is a wider neck opening.  Scent evaporates and I presume was quite expensive so enabling it to evaporate easily by having a wide opening doesn't quite feel right.f
Could it have been for ink maybe?
I'm trying to imagine what kind of stopper it might have had for the ground neck rim.  Maybe a flat glass stopper or a mushroom style one?

Actually it could have had a metal neck surround and then a stopper inside that so I suppose the neck could well work that way for a scent bottle.  There are a couple I can think of that date early 19th that are probably that type of shape.

This one has a wider neck - Art Deco
https://chairish-prod.freetls.fastly.net/image/product/sized/85885322-19e5-4f84-a2bf-9f237f2f8a16/french-art-deco-round-glass-perfume-bottle-7515?aspect=fit&width=1600&height=1600

What are the dimensions please?

Oh could it possibly have been for salt or pepper?

[Paul S.]

morning m  -  I've looked very briefly at your reply, but as I need to get out to Kew this morning will reply on this one later today.     Sorry about lack of dimensions  -  it's 3.25 inches tall (roughly 8 cms.) - and 2.75 inches at the base (c. 7 cms.).

[Paul S.]

Hi  -  the opening is c. 3 cms., and whilst I don't collect scents seriously, that does seem much bigger than the normal stopper opening for a scent.       Scent does evaporate fairly quickly, at least cheap stuff apparently does, but the high end ones don't and it's all to do with ambergris from the sperm whale  -  I have a scent from c. 1920s and '30s where the aroma is still captivating when I remove the stopper.
It might have been an ink well but I'm not getting vibes in that direction but you could well be correct.                I did think of a sifter  -  but they're usually much taller.

The neck cutting on this one extends almost up to the rim, so unlikely IMHO that it had an external collar, and no signs of plaster of paris though that might have simply dropped away.

It was mostly the cutting, wear and appearance of the star cut base that had me intrigued - the wear in particular being extensive.    A salt or pepper is always a possibility.         I think the options are multiple and unlikely we shall ever know for certain, but just one of those little bits of history that excite me.

[flying free]

But, if nothing else it's a very good example of how mitre cut stars on older glass were made such that each radial arm was created by two passes of the wheel and not one as in modern glass - certainly in the C20 and likely much of the second half of the C19.   
 

Can you explain this - I don't understand what you mean?

[Paul S.]

sure ..............    the undersides of some glass is cut with a radial arms, thus forming the pattern of a star - and the number of arms is used (with caution) to date the glass in question  -  this is often unreliable for dating.

On C20 and much later Victorian pieces, each arm of the star is created - by a single pass of the glass against the edge of the grinding wheel (not the flat) -  the glass is presented to the wheel such that the cut so formed is a mitre - and when made by a skilled cutter the piece is lifted off the wheel toward the end of the cut - this produces a uniform mitre that fades in depth toward the end of the cut and creates a fine point to the terminal of the cut.
For whatever reason, this mitre cut on pieces made prior to the middle third of the C19, wasn't made in a single pass against the wheel - no idea why.           Instead, each side of the mitre was made as a separate cut thus two passes needed for each arm  -  thus some difference in symmetry of the mitre cut is almost inevitable  -  the most noticeable of which is that at the end of the cut where the glass is lifted away from the wheel, the terminal of the arm is rarely a fine even point as when the entire mitre is cut on a single pass of the wheel.      One side of the end of the cut will always appear to extend very slightly further than the other side  -  sometimes very noticeable - other times less so.      creates an uneven tip to the arm.

Any good?

[flying free]

Yes, very good. So, for example on my Saint Louis bowl base, does that mean that each of the 36 points of the star were cut with two sides to each point (like a leaf),  but only one pass off the wheel was used to form that two-sided leaf shape?  Fascinating.

[Paul S.]

Hi - in cross-section, all mitres appears as a V shape , whether cut with a single or double pass of the wheel and really the only way to tell whether made by one or two cuts is by looking at the final tip of the arm - that truly last mm should be a symmetrical true point in a single pass, or whether one of the sides of the mitre is a smidgen longer than the other indicating two cuts.       
I will try and add another picture showing the slightly 'off' appearance when there are two passes. 

Mitres on quality glass, post middle C19, IMHO would probably be made with a single pass of the wheel - leaves are sometimes cut in two passes, deliberately, or perhaps the glass was presented 'off-centre' to the wheel, to achieve a light and dark appearance.           One of the best examples of this two-tone effect, from a mitre, is on the fish motif vase - page 134 - in Hajdamach's '20th Century British Glass' .     Kny was another exponent, who when he was working for Stuart made leaves come to life by innovative cutting of the mitre outline.

I'm guessing, but would suggest the mitres your St. Louis bowl were cut with a single pass of the wheel  -  they were high end makers and a single pass is less prone to visual errors.    But, have a look at the tips of the cut (out toward the rim of the foot) - the appearance should tell you which method.                      Sorry, don't know which leaves you're speaking of                

[flying free]

Oh I always think of those star cut points as leaves.  Like the leaves on an aspidistra I suppose.  Something like that.
https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1780/8157/products/Aspidistra-19cm-Birch_1024x1024@2x.jpg?v=1630595302
So a central stem and then the curved side of the leaf on either side of the stem.

Yes both the Baccarat and Saint-Louis bowl cuts are immaculate at each point.

[Ekimp]

Know nothing about them but maybe a snuff bottle? Looks like the stopper has an integral spoon with those. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/393018105901?hash=item5b81b4602d:g:or4AAOSwpE5fsW9Z