Topic: Triple annulated Georgian decanters

[bat20]

Hi ,I was lucky to pick these two decanters up the other day, one with a tight fitting stopper and one with a replacement some time in it’s life.I’ve had a few of these Prussian decanters but these half or three quarter size ones have all the bits and bobs you want in a Prussian.My question is how can you tell if they could or could not be Irish….or not ?Thanks

[Paul S.]

the short answer is that in the absence of a bottle being marked Penrose, Waterloo, Cork etc., it's impossible to be certain  -  these are attractive - a good purchase.           I think that if it was easy then we'd all know what to go out and look for.

The only personal comment that we might say with these, is that the midriff band of relief diamonds is unusual for an Irish bottle from the period we're discussing  -  not that I'm remotely expert, but having flicked through Phelps Warren decanters with this feature appear very uncommon.          Plenty of finger bottoms, mushroom stoppers and triple band neck rings  -  it's likely only the vesica motif is a reliable decorative feature which points, but doesn't guarantee, an Irish provenance. 

Take it that the pontil depression is shallow and very wide?

[bat20]

Fairly wide and with the wear you’d expect

[Paul S.]

thanks.                IMHO, I get the impression that 'annulated' should be reserved for describing knops, rather than neck rings  -  it doesn't really matter since we all know what we talking about here, but I get the feeling that's how the books wish us to describe these things.       We all know that annulated refers to a drinking glass stem with a knop consisting of a central band with another each side but of a smaller diameter  -  triple neck rings are similar in design - and neck rings like those here seem to be called 'pulley' rings  -  their appearance is more delicate than annulated knops.   

Take it also that neither of these bottles has matching numbers anywhere around the lip.                 Little known fact No. 359  -  McConnell says that Prussians were the first bottles to be fitted with neck-rings  -  before that it was probably only 'string-rings'  -  also have to be mindful that Prussians we reproduced prolifically during the 1920 - 30 period to satisfy out lust for 'period' things.

Did you mean to post two identical pix? 

[bat20]

No I didn’t mean to post twice !, the cutting is sharp ,glass greyish and the rings applied ,I’m not sure how true too the 1820 ones the 1920 ones are !??

[Paul S.]

neither am I  -  sorry, not suggesting these are early C20, but always useful to be aware that copying 'Georgian style' was a popular pastime around that time, and something from c. 1920 is now of course old and a true antique.

[Laird]

These would persuade me that are from the 1820's, though I have no expertise. I just collect them, and these are the style I look for. I thought that neck 'pulley rings' were an indicator that they might be Irish, and have heard Waterford mentioned as a likely source. Should I chuck that particular piece of info into the trash can? Of course I'm sure there is no hard and fast rule of thumb, otherwise we would know about it.

[Paul S.]

therein, of course, lies the danger  -  to attribute a particular age based solely on style/appearance can be misleading  -  we need all the other little nuances to help feel more certain  - fashion follows whatever the public demands, and acres of period glass was made in the first quarter of the C20.        Unfortunately, viewing glass only on the screen is never as reliable as having the item in our hands. 
these look good, and yes, certainly pulley rings did appear on Irish bottles.