Topic: Victorian frosted

[Keith Mick]

Hi,
I was surprised to find what looked like a Victorian frosted goblet in a mixed box of stuff at a local car boot last weekend. Even more surprised when I realised there was a pair and both in good nick. Has anyone got any insight into the maker of these glasses? I believe Richardson invented the acid etch frosting process and made different designs including similar goblet types. Whitefriars also made similar glasses and perhaps other makers.
They have quite a large bowl 8.5cm at the rim and stand just over 16cm high. The bowls seem slightly unusual in having no cut decoration unlike the examples I've found online and the knop arrangement doesn't match any I've seen.
They're in very good condition despite showing wear to the feet and bowl rims, inclusions and small bubbles.
They have a beautiful ping which seems to last for ages!
Any thoughts on ID or general comments welcome.
Thanks,
Keith

[Ekimp]

Hi, a nice pair of goblets, a lucky find there! As you say, it might be difficult to pin down the maker.

Regarding the frosting, I doubt they are frosted by acid but by mechanical abrasion. If interested, there is quite a long topic covering how items were frosted here: https://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,70868.msg397299.html#msg397299 . Reply 41 describes the abrasive frosting method.

As far as I’m aware, in the U.K. acid frosting (white acid) was developed by John Northwood c1867. The acid frosting is different from the acid etching used to make etched lines and patterns etc.

After acid frosting had been developed, items could still frosted by abrasion (and I think were quite likely to be if the object was a suitable shape).

Here is an abrasive frosted and acid etched goblet of mine that I’m sure is Richardson’s: https://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,70755.msg402733.html#msg402733

[Keith Mick]

Hi,
You could be right about the surface abrasion method being the one used on these goblets. Having taken another look one does seem to show tiny track marks when held up to the light at the correct angle. I wasn't aware it was even a thing during the period!
It occurred to me after posting the article that much of the decorative work such as cutting was outsourced at the time and these glasses could have been "frosted" by the glass house almost as blanks but never went on to be cut.
I still think they're gorgeous! It's just a shame that its difficult if not impossible to get a maker's ID. From what I can tell date wise 1860-1880?
Thanks for your help,
Keith

[Ekimp]

Yes, very nice - I think they are finished as intended. I agree with your date estimate. In the small book Miller’s Glass Antiques Checklist, Mark West (consultant) they say “glasses made c.1860-1880 are characterised by a collar under the bowl”. They are talking about coloured glasses there but presumably it would also apply to clear glasses like yours. I don’t suppose the collar ‘rule’ is 100% reliable for dating though, that would be too easy!

[Keith Mick]

Hi,
Yes the date estimate seems reasonable. I'm still over the moon at finding them in such good condition. I could well have dismissed the first glass as something more modern, good job I took a proper look!
Thanks again for your help, how are you on Georgian glass? I have a few more bits and pieces I might post!
Keith

[Ekimp]

It’s surprising what you can find and what gets overlooked. I used to be more interested in British Georgian glass when I started….but got sidetracked in other directions, as happens You might get some interest depending what it is. Good luck with your hunting!

[Keith Mick]

Hi, Victorian frosted featured on Kevin's "love decanters " channel on youtube at the mo.
Interesting an informative,
Keith

[Ekimp]

Yes, I saw the jugs one earlier, I see he’s added two videos for drinking glasses. He also shows the glass on his website, the frosted goblets on their own page: http://www.lovedecanters.co.uk/LDGlassesFrosted.html

On his website he says frosted items became popular in the 1850s after Richardsons perfected the technique for creating a frosted surface on glass using acid. He says something similar at the start of the jug video. I’m sure this is wrong and that the Richardson developments in the 1850s he talks about were for acid etching to create lines/patterns, cameo glass or acid polishing. As I mentioned, Hajdamach says it was Northwood who developed acid frosting in the U.K. c.1867 (not that all frosted glass after that date was frosted by acid).

I personally doubt that any of those frosted goblets and jugs he shows are frosted by acid (but I don’t have them in my hands so could be wrong). With the jugs, you can see that acid frosting is unlikely by the way some of the areas around the handle attachments have been treated.

[neilh]

I'm sitting on half a dozen early Molineaux Webb frosted pieces (not pressed) including something from their first frosted suite from c1850-55.
I'll have to do a few close up pics for you, they are unlikely to have used a technique different to Richardsons. Their frosted goblets are not that different to those shown on Love Decanters.

[Ekimp]

Always interesting to see. I don’t normally do pressed glass but recently got a nice Molineaux Webb Reg. 249600 (17 January 1871 reg. lozenge) frosted pressed dish. That is frosted by abrasion.

I’m going to try and get some clear surface photos of my abraded Richardson vermicular goblet and the white acid frosting on a Northwood piece for comparison.