Topic: Opaline Glass Bottle/Flacon

[NevB]

With the type of gilding probably French, and with the snake most likely St.Louis. At 21cm. tall it might be a perfume bottle or possibly a cruet or water bottle. I assume the stopper is the original one although it is marked 14. and the bottle 35. It has a ground pontil and base and hard deposits on the bottom which look like a mixture of gold paint and something else. Date second half of 19th.C.

[Ekimp]

Also maybe Schachtenbach? It’s quite similar to this vase: https://sammlung-online.stadtmuseum.de/Details/Index/1530476

[NevB]

Thanks Ekimp, it might possibly be but from Christine Vincendeau's book Les Opaline, I think it's more likely St.Louis. I don't know anything about Schachtenberg, I've had a look and there are other pieces attributed to them with snakes but nothing that helps. I must say I'm not convinced of the attribution on the vase, my first thoughts would be it's French, but I'm probably wrong.

[Ekimp]

I don’t know much about them but was investigating a snake vase a while ago that was similar looking opaline. My vase was frosted (why I bought it) but the frosting looked like something applied very thinly onto the surface, rather than the surface being removed such as by abrasion or acid. I think it was a bit like the fine enamel used in the Davenport patent for ornamenting glass (https://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,70876.msg394467.html)

Perhaps they all frosted the snake vases in the same way but if not it could be a clue to the maker. I don’t suppose Vincendeau says anything about the method used for frosting?

[NevB]

The book is in French, not the sort I learnt at school many years ago but I'll have a look through. She describes this type of glass as "pate de riz". I think the frosting is acid but it might well be by very fine abrasion.

[Ekimp]

Thanks. If the frosting is very fine it could be applied. Wish I put in more effort at languages at school - been trying to learn German…partly because of the glass books.

[flying free]

Schachtenbach becher example here which has similarities with your flakon.
It's white with gilding and a blue snake. 
https://www.auctions-fischer.de/catalogues/online-catalogues/249-27th-glass-sale-in-zwiesel.html?L=1&kategorie=102&artikel=61531&L=1&cHash=c13334f82b

There is another with a white snake on white so according to Dr Fischer auctions they made white on white as well.
https://www.auctions-fischer.de/catalogues/online-catalogues/283-ii-european-glass-studio-glass.html?L=1&kategorie=102&artikel=96341&L=1&cHash=13e4e72c7b

There are a number of flakons on there as well but none have the stopper in the same shape as yours.  They are all different but the stoppers are more ornate in shape.

The gilding on your flakon and the base/foot has some similarities with the first becher.

Some examples from the Cristallerie Saint-Louis museum here:
https://cdn-bbagm.nitrocdn.com/NsnkCQqpWdOulWSJzQyDCyGWSpLAdiyT/assets/images/optimized/rev-5abe659/www.mv-bracelet.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/opaline-vert-saint-louis.jpg

[NevB]

Ekimp, yes the book actually has a chapter "Decors Graves et Depolissage"/ engraved and de-polished. From what I can gather they used both hydrofluoric acid and abrasion by rubbing with very fine sand, emery and water. They heated  a mixture of calcium fluoride, chalk and sulphuric acid to produce a vapour to do the frosting, interestingly they then diluted any leftover liquid with water and stored it in lead or gutta percha/rubber containers.  Some of it's a bit too technical to understand, I might try Google translate. There is a page of the St. Louis 1851 catalogue illustrations in the book with bottles but not one exactly like mine, however there is a picture of a water set with a similar bottle, minus the snake.

[Ekimp]

Thanks for checking that, that’s interesting. My snake vase has clear boundaries around the snake so has either been masked (for acid etching/fuming) or had something painted on. I assume the snakes were too much in the way for the abrasion method but the finish looks nothing like Northwood’s acid etching, so maybe it’s fumed. Will have to have another look.

I expect you know, but if you use an iPad, you can photograph a page of text, then you can select the text in the photograph and press the translate button. I expect there are better ways to do it, and on other devices.

[flying free]

There are more Schachtenbach pieces and information here:
https://pressglas-korrespondenz.de/aktuelles/pdf/pk-2014-3w-frauenau-schachtenbach-2014-katalog.pdf

Interestingly I often see that particular gilded effect on that snake jug on the front cover the exhibition document, listed as Saint-Louis such as here:
http://www.encheres-nantes-labaule.com/vente-aux-encheres/383-nantes-belle-vente-mobiliere-cloture-du-catalogue-le-1er-mars/128950-saint-louis-grande-aiguiere-en-cristal-opalin-l-anse-formee-d-un-enroulement-de-serpent-bleu-a-rehau

The numbering on your bottle also reminds me of Bohemian glass items.  Not sure why but I don't associate that with French glass but I could be wrong.

Is there any evidence of any gilding left on your snake?  Having looked closely a the photo it looks as if yours might have been entirely gilded?