Topic: Wyndham or Gibraltar?

[theElench]

I've had what I've always thought of as two Bagley "Wyndham" flower bowls for some time and thought that one having a support for a stem holder was probably due to different moulds or possibly that the support was added / removed due design changes over time.

Recently I was reading an old thread from 2005 ("Glass Identifying") where it mentions "- this one is either Bagley Wyndham or the Walther equivalent (Gibraltar) which are almost identical.  Bernard and Angela had a discussion about this some time ago - it might have been on the old board." 

I haven't been able to find the previous discussion and wonder if they came to any conclusion as I've seen on the Pressglas site that Pamela's "Gibraltar" bowl is shown as having a support.

Has it ever been established whether they're "almost" identical is because the Walther design has the support and the Bagley does not?

TIA for any clarification.

[NevB]

In her book Angela says collectors say the number of fan sections are different between the two but doesn't give numbers.

https://www.glas-musterbuch.de/Walther-1931.116+B6YmFja1BJRD0xMTYmcHJvZHVjdElEPTUxODEmcGlkX3Byb2R1Y3Q9MTE2JmRldGFpbD0_.0.html

[theElench]

Thanks for replying.

It's a pity the discussion was lost in the change-over to the 'new' board.

I've looked at the example Pamela has on Pressglas and compared it with both of mine and I must admit that I can't see any difference in the number of fan sections or even much difference in their shapes and sizes.  The only difference I can see is Pamela's example and one of mine has the support and the other doesn't.

I haven't looked on ebay or etsy yet but I have a feeling that on the UK sites the majority would not have the support and presumably most of them would have been made in the UK by Bagley, with the smaller number being the imported Walther type? 

[Anne]

The Wyndham versus Gibraltar discussion post  is here:
https://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,28164.0.html

[theElench]

Thank you so much for finding the earlier discussion and to Angela for the details of the Bagley version.

Reading through the earlier posts it seems I have two of the Bagley "Wyndham" type.

My frosted one has.
2 supports for the frog.
A clear blue frog with12 holes.  (which it had when I bought it)
The supports are 4.5cms from the top.

Both have.
9, 9, 9, 8, flutes.
Height and length of 6 and 11 inches.

What confused me was that I bought the clear one first, so assumed that was the "standard" Bagley type, without supports.
Then I noticed that Pamela's on Pressglas had supports, so assumed that was Walther.

Thanks so much for the explanation.


One other thing I notice is that all the examples without supports are clear blue? 
Perhaps an early trial run by Bagley that didn't work too well, so they added the supports subsequently?