Topic: Perhaps 19th Century engraved rummer - help with ID please

[chilternhills]

Can anyone point me in the right direction with this piece? I guess it's a rummer. Perhaps 19th century. It's beautifully engraved with foliage and acorns, a V-shaped motif, and a double ring near the base of the bowl. The pontil mark is unfinished. As you can see, there is a fair bit of wear on the base indicative of age. The piece stands about 20 cm high. The bowl is about 18 cm across. The base is 14 cm across. The bowl rings nicely, strong and loud, when pinged.

Thanks in advance for your help.

Anton

[Paul S.]

hi - although I'm a great fan of wear, and you have lots here, I'm a tad disinclined to think C19 in view of the size of the piece and type of engraving  -  an early C20 piece will now still be over 100 years old and may have substantial wear.                      The shinny-ness may also tend more toward the C20 - unfortunately, the copyists probably find this plain pattern easier to copy.         I don't have the book now, but going from memory the cut double ring isn't something I recall.
Having said all that who knows?  -  I've given up being dogmatic   -  let's see what others think.

[Paul S.]

just to add .....................    decoration, in the form of engraving or whatever, can be added subsequent to the making of the item - anytime subsequent  -  and the bowl shape is 'bucket'.

[NevB]

The engraving at the rim doesn't look right, could it have been cut down?

[chilternhills]

Agreed that it's probably not a rummer; it's too big. A bucket then or maybe a small punch bowl.

The shininess of the piece is just due to the museum ceiling lights and me adjusting the image contrast a little to make the engraving clearer.

The engraving is nicely done, but who knows when. It's hard to be absolutely sure if the bowl has been reduced in height or not just from the engraving. We have just had a good look and it seems not reduced.

The piece is very heavy for it's size and thus likely lead crystal.

[Ivo]

Agree with Nev that this piece was cut down. 

[chilternhills]

We found another similarly shaped piece and now agree that the bowl seems to be slightly reduced. It can't be by much since the proportions of the piece look OK.

[Paul S.]

I don't get the impression that the engraving we see here is C19.

[Lustrousstone]

I agree: the engraving looks very mid 20th C to me