Topic: Topaz or Canary or Victoria

[flying free]

Further to my two previous posts on the crown perfume bottle in the Bentley Priory collection - some thoughts:

The Queen Victoria uranium bowls thread on the board was started because there was reference to James Powell making the uranium glass bowls (from the Museum of London).  The bowls are now in the V&A and are noted as by Davenports in the V&A caption.
In the early discussion on that thread, it was noted that apparently Powell's had made Queen Adelaide Candelabra with topaz drops (uranium?) given to her by Lord somebody (maybe Howe? can't remember his name)
see here:
https://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,70066.msg390276.html#msg390276


According to this reference page 241:
https://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,70066.msg394529.html#msg394529
Harrach showed Gold topaz table lights (candelabra?) in 1835 in gold topaz which I think is referred to as being Chrysopras composition (i.e. uranium glass?)

So - some potential for Harrach to have been the producer of the (uranium glass?) gold topaz drops candelabra given to Queen Adelaide?
And some potential for Harrach to have been the maker of the crown perfume flacon in the Bentley Priory collection apparently given to Queen Adelaide?


But then there is also this - sale by Bonhams of a crown perfume bottle with cross stopper sold as by Apsley Pellatt:
https://www.bonhams.com/auction/21728/lot/57/an-apsley-pellatt-crown-scent-flask-and-stopper-circa-1825/
It's interesting for it's similarities to items in the From Neuwelt to the Whole World book, specifically:
- the stopper cross is what appears to be almost identical to the stopper cross on the crown flacon on page 109 plate 115
- the cutting design of the bottom part of the body down to the foot is very similar to the design of a becher engraved by Dominik Biemann p 135 plt153
- the repetition of cut parallel lines close together down the bands of the crown is similar to that device used on a becher on page 97

However there were also these three sold via Christies:
https://www.christies.com/en/lot/lot-2016714

Terrible photograph so very hard to see details to compare.

But the Corning has this one which appears to be the same or very similar to the bottle in the middle of the Christie's sale photograph but with a different now cross shaped stopper - wow - this is confusing!
  Corning has it as possibly by Frederick Carder and says it was made by Stevens and Williams:
https://glasscollection.cmog.org/objects/32023/scent-bottle

And lastly this rather beautiful and fun piece:
https://delomosne.co.uk/index.php/product/p19-3-a-fine-and-rare-crown-scent-english-c-1820/

https://delomosne.co.uk/index.php/product/p19-3-a-fine-and-rare-crown-scent-english-c-1820/
This too reminds me of many items in the Harrach book. The stopper cross especially I think the same as the one on the bottle on page 109.
In fact it could be an optical illusion but there appears to be a triangle shape of cut pattern in the lateral band of small diamond cutting band above the foot.  That design with the lateral band and the triangle is identical to the one shown in the book.


Perhaps they were all making very similar designs   

For comparison - this is a scent bottle in the V&A with Apsley Pellatt Patent marks on it apparently referring to the patent for the press moulding - has pressed medallions of King William and Queen Adelaide.
The marks on it are quote "'W.IV.R / Patent ADELAIDE / Pellatt & Co. PATENTEES' (Maker's mark referring to the press-moulding patent of 1831)":
https://collections.vam.ac.uk/item/O249780/scent-bottle-and-apsley-pellatt/

Apologies - I fear this is a digression from the topic of the thread!

[flying free]

  ...

   I leave you with this tidbit from Deming Jarves agent [spy?] in Europe from a letter sent probably 1850 s

https://www.glassmessages.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=73090.0;attach=262532;image

Cagney I think Poulenc Wittman is this - this company seems to have started in 1852.  However it seems the distribution of fine chemicals bit for glass came about from 1878/1880?  So you might be able to date that recipe requesting buy from Wittman to c.1878 ish?:

https://stichtinghistorischemicroscopie.nl/en/category/poulenc-freres-en/
'Léon Wittman and his brother in law, Etienne Poulenc (1823-1878),  began by retailing photographic products under the “P.W.” name around 1852 and then manufacturing them round the end of the decade. After Etienne’s death in 1878, his widow ran the company with her sons for a couple of years, and then the 2 brothers, Gaston and Emile took over under the name Poulenc Frères. They focused on the production and distribution of fine chemicals, photographic products and colours for glass and ceramics. Meanwhile, the youngest brother, Camille, qualified as a pharmacist and then fires and up to silence in 1893. After he joined the company, they added a research laboratory and a scientific library.

In 1900, the firm became a public limited company. In 1903, they opened a new establishment in Paris dedicated to photographic products and including a projection room in the basement. They continued making pharmaceuticals and other chemicals including, also in 1903, the synthetic anaesthetic stovaine which was used on the large-scale until 1940. In 1928, Rhône-Poulenc, a conglomerate of small chemical and pharmaceutical companies, was formed.'

[flying free]

There is a more detailed story possibly here on Wiki.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poulenc_Fr%C3%A8res
re Wittman Poulenc

So it may have been the 1850s perhaps according to the names involved in the business as Poulenc (son in law of Wittman, married Wittman's daughter) took over the business completely in 1858.  No info on them selling uranium products at that time however Poulenc was a chemist and it reads as though they were distributing photographs supplies.  Uranium oxides might have been involved in that.


page 166 here Great Exhibition 1851 - Johnson Matthey showing lots of stuff including Uranium Oxide ... and apparently exhibiting a glass vessel made of uranium glass (bit like the glass vessel of uranium glass apparently on display on the Powell stand?  - wonder if they all had an example of the recent imports of uranium glass vessels from Germany?):
https://www.google.co.uk/books/edition/Official_Descriptive_and_Illustrated_Cat/fb1AAAAAcAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=johnson+matthey+great+exhibition+uranium+oxide&pg=RA1-PA166&printsec=frontcover

[cagney]

 Most likely you are correct on Poulenc Wittman. I read it as Pauline Whitman, but somewhat difficult to read their writing.
  The Priory Crown I think a good chance probably German. Silver nitrate stain very much in their tradition. Possibly a gift to commemorate her ascendence. From her aristocratic family back home? A bit different than the others structurally. The base rises up into the arches a little and is cut and decorated. The engraving well thought out, as the engraver leaves some stain to highlight the stem vein in the leaf and the pricklies on the round part of the thistles. The Cross Patee seems to be a popular motive for crowns in general [Wikipedia]. This particular version unknown.

  Siver nitrate stain used in this country on some lacy bowsl/plates to highlight certain design features around 1840s and much later as well. English usage I really do not know.

[flying free]

(Thank you, I didn't know it was called a  cross pattée)

RE the cross pattée crown perfume bottles and link to Harrach

Here is another possible link to Harrach in conjunction with the design links to the two crown items that are shown in the Harrach book - one a crown perfume bottle and the other a crown lid for a pokal:

Wikipedia says (amongst other descriptions of the cross pattée - this is just the one that was most relevant to this discussion)
'Iron Cross
In 1813, King Frederick William III of Prussia established the Iron Cross as a decoration for military valor, and it remained in use, in various forms, by Prussia and later Germany until 1945.'
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cross_patt%C3%A9e

Wikipedia says this of the link between King Frederick William III of Prussia and the House of Harrach:
'In 1824 Frederick William III married for the second time, to Countess Auguste von Harrach zu Rohrau und Thannhausen. At the time of their marriage, the House of Harrach was still not recognized as equal to other European royal families for dynastic purposes. The marriage was therefore morganatic and she was created Princess of Liegnitz. They had no children.[4]'
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frederick_William_III_of_Prussia



Harrach did use a stain - there is a candlestick in the book From Neuwelt to the Whole World - plate116 'colourless glass, partially stained yellow and engraved' and 'c.1835' and ' Museum of Decorative Arts, Prague inv. no. 17953'
Yellow and red staining very famous in Bohemian glass (see Friedrich Egermann)



So ... we know Harrach made stained yellow glass, we also know they made crown perfume flakons with cross stoppers and lids for goblets in the crown design with a cross for a stopper.  We know there is a link between the House of Harrach and King Frederick William III of Prussia.


The bottom part of every crown perfume bottle, with the exception of the Adelaide stained bottle which has other similarities, is very similar in design device and cutting to the becher on page 135 of From Neuwelt to the Whole World - plate 153 engraving by Dominik Biemann 1828.



I cannot currently find a link between Queen Adelaide and King Frederick William III or his second wife Countess Auguste von Harrach.
Queen Adelaide was from Saxe-Meiningen.  Her father and details here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_I,_Duke_of_Saxe-Meiningen

However, Queen Victoria's eldest child, her daughter Princess Victoria, was married to the German Emperor Frederick III at 17 (so 1857?) and  became Queen of Prussia. She was named after Queen Adelaide (Adelaide married King William but had no surviving children so King William's niece became Queen Victoria):
'Victoria, Princess Royal (Victoria Adelaide Mary Louisa;[1] 21 November 1840 – 5 August 1901) was German Empress and Queen of Prussia as the wife of Frederick III, German Emperor. '
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victoria,_Princess_Royal

So the crown perfume bottle could have made it's way over here via a later date and as a present from the Queen of Prussia.



Re Apsley Pellatt and Falcon Glass Works query over whether they made crown pierced cut perfume bottles with cross stoppers

Currently I don't have any evidence for this.  Does anyone know if there is a crown perfume bottle anywhere with a patent on it or with definitive id from Apsley Pellatt?

[flying free]

In 1841 Apsley Pellatt deposited a number of glass items ('Series of Articles') to the Royal Polytechnic Institution.

https://www.google.co.uk/books/edition/The_Royal_Polytechnic_Institution_Catalo/rihbAAAAcAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=falcon+glass+works+medicean+shape&pg=PA93&printsec=frontcover

See page 93

Finishes on some of the articles included:

'amber'
'topaz'
'stained and engraved'

[flying free]

For Cagney:

I've come across a large collection of glass in the Currier Museum in the States.  There are many 'canary' glass items in there and I've only been through a small amount of the collection so far.  Just thought you might be interested or at may want to keep it as a reference point:

example page here with candle holders:
https://collections.currier.org/objects-1/portfolio?records=50&query=mfs%20all%20%22glass%22&sort=9&page=6

[cagney]

  Much appreciated. A new [to me] online source to see the actual glass always of value. Seen some things I have not seen before. Although, some of their attributions or lack there of, could do with some updates.

[flying free]

Yes - I was going through it thinking they NEED a good glass researcher/curator