Topic: Help Identifying this beautiful piece of glass...

[chuggy]

Too contentious that one Cathy, read the paperweight forum on back topics, far safer than starting it up again.
Paul

[Leni]

Reproductions?  No, I wouldn't say the Chinese weights were reproductions, although you might say some of them were copies.

And are the designs 'unoriginal'?   Well, are Allan Scott or 'JD' (why the unnecessary censorship!  :evil: ) weights  'unoriginal' because some of the designs and motifs they use were done first by St Louis, Clichy, or Baccarat?  Are Willie Manson or Delmo Tarsitano 'Lizard' weights 'unoriginal' because they were done first by Pantin?  (I could go on!   :roll: )

Don't forget, they say 'imitation is the sincerest form of flattery'!   :wink:  :lol:

I don't think it's necessesarily the Chinese glass makers who are the ones passing their products off as 'Murano', either!    :twisted:

[Leni]

Too contentious that one Cathy

I beg to differ Paul.  But no doubt I stand to be corrected on that!  

I await The Committee's decision.

[chuggy]

Ah Leni you know my feelings I'll defend the rights of them to make what the heck they like they have families to feed and a living to earn.
Paul

[heartofglass]

nd are the designs 'unoriginal'? Well, are Allan Scott or 'JD' (why the unnecessary censorship! ) weights 'unoriginal' because some of the designs and motifs they use were done first by St Louis, Clichy, or Baccarat? Are Willie Manson or Delmo Tarsitano 'Lizard' weights 'unoriginal' because they were done first by Pantin? (I could go on! Rolling Eyes )

Totally agree, Leni!
They are simply variations on genres or types......like still life is a genre of painting practised by many artists.
It is often dodgy dealers who are passing things off as others to turn a profit.
I don't really care where the objects come from, or who made them....as long as I like them, find them beautiful,or weird,or fascinating....& if the price is right, then I buy it!
 
We should also recall that there was a great bias against glass made in Bohemia during the late 19th C. in England-it was seen as ripping off English glass & undercutting it in price! :roll:
Now it is highly collectable.....

[Cathy B]

nd are the designs 'unoriginal'? Well, are Allan Scott or 'JD' (why the unnecessary censorship! ) weights 'unoriginal' because some of the designs and motifs they use were done first by St Louis, Clichy, or Baccarat? Are Willie Manson or Delmo Tarsitano 'Lizard' weights 'unoriginal' because they were done first by Pantin? (I could go on!

Well, it depends on how much each of these artists brought to their work. If they largely use someone else's design, then yes, they are unoriginal. That said, the work could be competent, beautiful and collectable without being entirely original. Originality is overrated, in any case. Allan Scott's paperweights are jawdroppingly gorgeous and who cares if they take their inspiration from Baccarat?

Anyway, back to the subject (which as far as I know is not so contentious), apart from the paperweights, what do the Asian millefiori pieces look like and how can they be distinguished from the Italian? Or, is it really a case of learning all the canes :shock: ?

Cheers,
Cathy

[Leni]

Anyway, back to the subject (which as far as I know is not so contentious), apart from the paperweights, what do the Asian millefiori pieces look like and how can they be distinguished from the Italian? Or, is it really a case of learning all the canes :shock: ?

I'm afraid it's pretty much by learning the canes, Cathy!   :roll:  And by recognising superior quality!  

As several people have reported previously, there are some unscrupulous dealers in Venice and Murano who import weights (and other glass) from China and put Murano labels on it, because it sells to the tourists who just want a cheap souvenir of their trip, not a piece of art glass, which obviously costs more!    

This caused the downfall of many of the Murano glasshouses, who couldn't compete, cost-wise, with the cheap imports.  Happily, they are now organising against this practice, but there may still be many wrongly identified pieces which are undoubtedly 'out there' in the market place, some even falsely bearing Murano labels!   :x

Caveat emptor, I'm afraid.

But also, as you will see if you search on the internet for 'Moretti' canes, these are available to buy online.  You can even recognise some of them in early Jim Hart weights!  I know that Jim first started making paperweights using these purchased canes, before he taught himself to pull his own canes!  

So it's not simple, by any means!   :roll: Good Luck!   :wink:

[Carterofmars]

Hi... First I'd like to thank you for all the responses; very interesting.

I paid 10.00 for the vase at a antique/flea market this past weekend.  The woman wanted 20.00 but I insisted on ten and when I walked away she agreed to 10.00    Anyway, I found alot of links for Fratelli Toso but find the following the most interesing:

http://www.moltabellaglass.com/items/551141/item551141store.html#item

So is the concensus is that it's actually Toso or is it a reproduction/fake?

The base of my vase matches the bottom of the one in this link above exactly.

More thoughts/opionions greatly appreciated!

[Cathy B]

Carterofmars,

Chuggy wrote:  

I'm with Marinka on this I would say it's almost certainly a Murano made tourist piece on the lines of the earlier Fratelli Toso work. The clear applied handles confirm it's later origins, but I'd say not Chinese.
Paul

I'd say the consensus is that it was made in Murano, from Moretti canes on Murano, for the tourist trade, in the style of Toso. Glass made for the tourist trade is perfectly nice stuff, but obviously won't (or shouldn't) be worth as much as the branded designer glass.

C.

[Carterofmars]

Any idea as to value?