Topic: Help With Indetification of paperwieght. ID = Murano, likely AVEM (pics gone)

[Another Period In Time]

Hi,
I have the following paperweight. I know its an original and its worth quite a bit but I am not sure of the maker. PLEASE HELP. Thanks and if you need to see another picture email me
http://tinypic.com/view.html?pic=1t2ah3

[Ivo]

Looks like AVEM Tutti Frutti. What say you, Kevin?

[KevinH]

Kevin thinks ...

... Hmmm, yes, it could well be an AVEM item. But that's only going on the evidence of known AVEM vases of similar appearance.

Unfortunately there is very little in the paperweight books covering what may have been regarded as "a vast and regular production" of paperweights from Murano. And as we know, trying to ascertain specific Murano makers of general glassware, and even more so for paperweights, is not too easy.

For the weight considered here, I would be interested in knowing its size and seeing a photo of the base.

[Leni]

Kevin thinks ...

... Hmmm, yes, it could well be an AVEM item. But that's only going on the evidence of known AVEM vases of similar appearance.

It looks very like the one I acquired recently, which I was advised on the board might be an Avem.  However, looking at the Avem Tutti Frutti bowl I bought the other day in a Charity shop (and paid a reasonable - if slightly 'bargain' - price for, Sue  :wink: ) I think the canes, twists and latticino may be slightly different.  

I am no longer sure my paperweight is Avem, alhtough I am fairly certain about the bowl.  This weight of A.P.I.T.'s looks more like an Avem Tutti Frutti to me than mine does   :?

I reckon if Kevin can't tell, there's no way of telling!   :roll:

Leni

[KevinH]

Leni said:

I reckon if Kevin can't tell, there's no way of telling!

Oh dear! Please don't reckon that, Leni. What I know is mostly from the wisdom (and mistakes) of other folk. I often have as much trouble identifying items outside of my specialist focus (Ysart paperweights) as anyone else. And even in the Ysart arena, I make wrong calls on occasion.

[Leni]

Leni said:

I reckon if Kevin can't tell, there's no way of telling!

Oh dear! Please don't reckon that, Leni.

Ahh, you're only being modest!   :wink:

So tell me; if there are so many different Murano glassmakers, can it be said with real certainty that, for example, they ALL finish the base of their weights in the same way?  There seems to be an implication that smoothly polished = Murano, not smoothly polished = Chinese.  Is this a bit of a sweeping statement, or is it a generalisation which can be relied upon to a great extent for identification purposes?  

And what exactly is meant by 'smooth'?  Shiny smooth, or smooth but opaque, as opposed to a rough pontil mark, or what?   :?

Leni

[Another Period In Time]

Thanks for the help
http://tinypic.com/view.html?pic=1tolck is a pic of the base, its not that different and theres no mark. It measures about 4.5 inches in diameter and about 2.5 inches tall.

[KevinH]

Hi, "Another Period..."

Thanks for the image of the base of the weight. Looks like an ok Murano (AVEM probably) to me.

----------

Leni, to answer your very good questions fully would take quite some time, but briefly my views are as follows. [The images are all 400 pixel wide but less than 6kb - quality is reduced but should still be ok for this discussion.]

a) "Smooth" = "shiny smooth"

b) I have a small selection of Murano weights and they all have a smooth polished base, as shown here:
http://tinypic.com/1torio
I cannot say for sure that *all* Murano weights wil be finished in this way. It is definitely true that at least some 19th century Venetian weights have a "matte ground" base (I have an example) and perhaps some 20th century Murano pieces will also have some grinding.

c) For Chinese versus Murano, yes "smoothly polished" would suggest Murano and would often - or usually - suggest not Chinese. But some of the latest Chinese output is getting much better and I would not be surprised to see smooth and neatly finished bases on some of their items.

For a fairly typical Chinese base finish take a look at:
http://tinypic.com/1torhe
(This weight has two Green Frogs with Red Eyes and Two Orange-and-Black Bees around the Flower. See comments in another thread about these features.)

Note that the whole base has a "matte ground" finish. Also, looking closely will show that the base is usually not a true circle and often has "indents" around the edge (probably tooling impressions). As with this example shown, there is also often a small "pit" in the base where the grinding has not taken off all of the pontil mark.

d) While I was at it, I took a shot of the base of my one and only example of a "Tutti Frutti" vase (a small one):
http://tinypic.com/1torja
This shows the ground base that Ivo has, elsewhere, commented on for Chinese copies of the Tutti Frutti design. It also has a small "pit" within the ground area. The appearance of the grinding is different from that seen on all of my Chinese weights. In fact, as grinding goes, this one is far better than on my weights! But the overall similarity is clear.

[RAY]

yep i would say 100% murano, the one's that are made in china if you have the eye and knowledge you can tell them a mile off as the colour's are not as bold and seem more translucent as the one in the link and the cane to the top left is not murano, as kev said one day they will have a polished base

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=3781625850&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT