Glass Message Board
Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass => Topic started by: Sklounion on March 03, 2007, 10:41:53 PM
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Due to a technical hitch.... a reprise....
http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-5416
Vase that D555 and I were discussing....
Neither of your vases are SU. poss Czech, but shape precludes hand-pressed, and rather suggests Novy Bor, if Czech.
David's was a discussion of a very different item, displaying significant post forming work.
Regards,
Marcus
PS dencill, nicely placed fly to grumpy grayling, did you doubt that I would respond? ;D
Moderator: link converted to absolute link
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Due to a technical hitch.... a reprise....
http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-2013
Huh ???
This is what the link really shows...
Cups by Marketa Silena
Cups designed by Marketa Silena for Rudolfova Hut@ Sklo Union 1983. Image copyright CGR. Photgraphed by Lumir Rott.
And I must say that they really look much more like cups than vases ;)
Carolyn
PS your last post on the Candle Wax topic has me very puzzled, bewildered and worried for you!
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Carolyn, check the link again. I suspect you looked at Marcus' original dynamic one just as I changed it to the absolute one. ;)
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Pointing at a Moravia vase, but not the diamond pattern I'd expect.
Marcus: nah, I never had any doubts! 8)
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http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-5408
Just to renew the thread, this is my vase. Cat's is identical but amber. I have seen this pattern somewhere, but whether it's new in a shop or as a picture in a book, I can't remember.
It's not pressed - the diamond relief patterning goes through to the inside of the glass. I'd be interested to know how it's made, even if it turns out to be a piece of modern mass produced glass. The glass is quite thin - at the rim it varies between 2mm and 3mm. It weighs 365 grams and it's 15.5 cms tall.
Roz
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Hi,
My apologies, this is the correct link, I think.
http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-5416
Regards,
Marcus
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Thanks Marcus: not the same vase at all, and it may have been me confusing the issue (as usual!) :-[
If you look at Roz's vase:
http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-5408
This is similar to the style to the one that Cat posted originally, where she mentioned a post that featured Adam (David 555).
Here's Cat's vase again:
http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-5394
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Could this have been in a thread that was bumped up but then debumped by the 'dark-side' glitch that has emasculated so much of the discussion from the 2nd/3rd of March. Unfortunately finding it again could be difficult as it will probably be full of wibble again and buried in 2 year old postings.
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Hi Frank,
I think Catshome posted the amber vase originally, referring to a discussion Adam and I had over "pineapple" style decor of SU items.
Much of the thread disappeared in the glitch.
Difficult to reconstruct, exactly as was, and with no back-up.
Regards,
Marcus
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Might be a back-up, we just have to wait for Angela to reappear. Should be able to restore some of the missing stuff if there was one taken.
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Which was whi I recommended holding off posting until we know what actually happened and what can be done, if there is a backup I doubt it will be complete to the point the host messed up but it should fill in some gaps.
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The webhost should be running a cron job back-up every night. You should not lose 2-3 days of posts if the problem is identified early and the back-up version is asked for.
Of course if only 1 person has admin authority and that person is MIA, then you are SOL until they return ;D
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I too have one of these diamond vases. It's mould-blown in grass-green uranium glass with a large ground and polished pontil. 15 cm tall and weighs 440 g
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Hi Christine,
Cat's photographs are better than mine in that they show the base of the vase. The diamond pattern starts on the base, and spirals round the main body, narrows at the neck and then flares out again to the rim. Each line of diamonds is complete from the centre of the base right up to the rim. That's why I'm intrigued to know how it was made. It's fairly obviously mould blown, but was it removed from the mould while still workable to produce the narrowed neck? There are no "seam" marks in the pattern, although I know they can be polished out. How has the glass blower held it to produce the narrowed neck and flared rim? There is no pontil mark and no obvious "gadget" marks.
I'm still learning about glass, and the whole process of glass blowing and moulding just fascinates me.
I'd also like to know where the vase was made and roughly how old it is.
Roz
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Could this have been in a thread that was bumped up but then debumped by the 'dark-side' glitch ...
I don't think so. I hunted back for this thread (it was only 2 days old at the time, I think) and was unable to find any trace.
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The thread was started by Cat, so the date of her photographs on the Gallery will show when the thread was started, won't it?
Roz
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Because mine definitely contains uranium, I would date it to about the 1930s. It does appear to have one, and only one, seam line. It may be that the one on the other side is better disguised. Judging but the way the diamonds at the top lose definition and go a bit squiffy, I would the vase was blown into a straight-necked mould and then worked by hand to create the flared top.
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Yes, it would. Sometimes my brain doesn't operate on such subtleties...
Date stamped: Mar 02, 2007
So the thread must have been started on or after this date. No time unless Anne can help, but it assumes Cat posted it straight away (where is she BTW?)
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Ummm...........I'm here! I work weekends and have just resurfaced. It looks as though you've been having "fun" while I've been working.
I usually post a topic within half an hour of uploading photographs.
Marcus - I think you were trying to show an example of the diamond vases in the reference to D555? So obviously not the same animal as mine and Roz's.
Roz - yours is a little smaller at 5.5" v's 6" - did you post a reply to the question I asked about how the rim of yours is finished? (before the thread disappeared)
Amber Vase :
http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/albums/userpics/10086/smallerDSCN0883.jpg
Detail of rim :
http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/albums/userpics/10086/smallerDSCN0884.jpg
Detail of bottom :
http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/albums/userpics/10086/smallerDSCN0886.jpg
Maybe we could just carry on here.......
Cat
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Hi Cat,
My vase has exactly the same finish to the rim: smoothed but not actually ground very smooth. It's the same height as yours : 15.5 cms or a tad over 6 inches. The base is also the same as yours. I imagine the two vases will weigh the same as well.
I think we are looking at decent quality, individually made vases, but made in some bulk. I was intending to sell mine, but I've grown rather fond of it now even though it's completely the wrong colour and not at all my usual taste!
Before the thread got lost in the ether, I think someone suggested they are of Czech origin, using old moulds from some 50 or so years ago, and I rather suspect that's about right. When I'm buying beads and I just want basic good quality ones, I go for Czech fire polished beads. This vase has the same sort of feel to it: good decent quality with no frills.
Or does one of the more experienced glass boarders know better? .........
Roz
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Date stamped: Mar 02, 2007
So the thread must have been started on or after this date. No time unless Anne can help, but it assumes Cat posted it straight away (where is she BTW?)
Timestamp: 1172858473 >:D
OK, OK, I'll translate... the server logs in Unix time, which translated to what we understand would make it: Fri, 02 Mar 2007 18:01:13 GMT (totally OT comment... to see how it converts time, go here (http://www.onlineconversion.com/unix_time.htm)) 8)
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Here are some pictures of my green uranium glass vase. It has a fire or acid polished rim, no grinding
top (http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b217/lustrousstone/IMG_1035.jpg) base (http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b217/lustrousstone/IMG_1034.jpg) whole vase (http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b217/lustrousstone/IMG_1033.jpg). As I said, I reckon mine is 70 plus years old
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The way the diamonds are formed looks the same, but the vase shape is different. It's all in the way the glass has been given the diamond pattern - I'm trying to remember where I've read about it. I have read too much over the last few weeks!
Help, anyone else?
Roz
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Do you mean the process, Roz? These were almost certainly mould-blown.
BTW, I just happened to channel-swap onto 'What Did The Ancients Do For Us" (Adam Hart-Davies) on UKTV History tonight, and they demonstrated mould blowing.
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Roz all three vases are mould blown, whether by machine or hand, into what appears to be the same mould design. Yours and Cat's have had no hand finishing. Mine has a ground and polished pontil mark and the neck has been shaped by hand to flare it, which is presumably what the designer intended. It is fairly safe to speculate they were made 30 plus years apart. Mine almost certainly dates from about the 1930s because it contains uranium, possibly earlier but not much later. Whether they were made by the same company is up to speculation - moulds and designs moved between factories and even countries.
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Just to throw another piece in the mix........I remembered this 3.5" amber jug :
http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/albums/userpics/10086/smallerDSCN0907.jpg
Base :
http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/albums/userpics/10086/smallerDSCN0906.jpg
View down :
http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/albums/userpics/10086/smallerDSCN0910.jpg
The glass of the jug is thicker. If you feel inside the vase there are definite hollows at the back of each diamond, the jug is smoother inside. On the outside, the vase has definite lines/hatching around each diamond, the jug doesn't. The base of the vase has the pattern over all of it, the base of the jug has a polished pontil.
I thought I remembered reading somewhere about "drawn optic", and that some patterns were associated with particular companies. I had Webbs in mind for this jug and thought it was c.1920s.
Christine - I'm still learning and I just can't see how Roz and my vases could have been blown at all. I had thought they must have been made by glass being poured into a complete mould as they are moulded all over.
I've just had a closer look and found that on one side the diamonds are no longer regular - they have a wavy/curved edge - have tried to show this in another picture :
http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/albums/userpics/10086/smallerDSCN0915.jpg
Roz - does yours have this too?
David - wish I'd known about the programme - if you see it's being repeated would you email me please :-*
Cat
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Now that jug is going down the diamond-optic-moulded path! I also have one in amber, quite large and heavy, with a ground/polished pontil mark, but would hesitate to guess who made it.
The link to the 'What The Ancients Did For Us' programme is here:
http://www.open2.net/whattheancients/romans.html
It mentions large windows and double-glazing, but not the mould-blowing! Boo! :P
Impossible to say when it'll be repeated, but I will look out for it. I'll also start a Museum thread about this, as more people will spot it.
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Our vases are blown into a mould - you can tell because the pattern can be felt on the inside and the outside. You can't just pour glass into a mould like you can ceramics - slip and molten glass have completely different properties. You start with a gob of glass on the end of a pipe, pop the gob inside a mould and then air is blown into the gob till it expands to the shape of the mould. Blowing can be manual or machine. In pressing, the gob of glass is dropped in to a mould and then a plunger squishes the glass up the sides of the mould. The inside of the glass has the same pattern as the plunger. It would just be too complicated to press such a diamond pattern - too much aligning and too costly. Optic moulded is something else... anyone.
The amber jug I would say was made in the same way, with the handle and the lip being manually done. With its polished pontil, it is probably of a similar vintage to my vase (with its polished pontil). The lack of definition is probably a result of a well-worn mould and/or reheating during the final hand shaping.
For the vases and the jug, the difference we are really talking about is time. My green vase and the jug were hand-made, probably pre-war. The blue and amber vases were machine made post-war. BUT the techniques are, to all intents and purposes, the same
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Just to throw another piece in the mix........I remembered this 3.5" amber jug :
http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/albums/userpics/10086/smallerDSCN0907.jpg
Base :
http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/albums/userpics/10086/smallerDSCN0906.jpg
View down :
http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/albums/userpics/10086/smallerDSCN0910.jpg
The glass of the jug is thicker. If you feel inside the vase there are definite hollows at the back of each diamond, the jug is smoother inside. On the outside, the vase has definite lines/hatching around each diamond, the jug doesn't. The base of the vase has the pattern over all of it, the base of the jug has a polished pontil.
I thought I remembered reading somewhere about "drawn optic", and that some patterns were associated with particular companies. I had Webbs in mind for this jug and thought it was c.1920s.
Christine - I'm still learning and I just can't see how Roz and my vases could have been blown at all. I had thought they must have been made by glass being poured into a complete mould as they are moulded all over.
I've just had a closer look and found that on one side the diamonds are no longer regular - they have a wavy/curved edge - have tried to show this in another picture :
http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/albums/userpics/10086/smallerDSCN0915.jpg
Roz - does yours have this too?
Cat
Cat - On close inspection, my vase does have that wavy line. I've been reading Hajdamach, and wondered if we should be referring to the pattern as "pineapple" or "honeycomb" rather than diamond? Although we all seem to know what we are talking about.
David - I think I had worked out that it was mould blown, but I also thought the vase must have been finished by hand, out of the mould, to make the neck. Now that we think there's a "seam" where the mould joined, maybe it didn't need to be hand finished? I've only seen a theoretical explanation of mould blowing and read about the method in books. It would be interesting to see a real demonstration of the technique.
My vase is currently sitting on the "waiting" shelf. Serendipity will work eventually and we'll know where these vases come from.