Glass Message Board
Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass => Topic started by: claretjugcollector on September 24, 2010, 09:59:42 AM
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i really would like to know what you , dear glass maniacs , think about that .
who was the best engraver or are there a few world class engravers left in this world ?
my suggestion is - Dominik Biemann - why ? just take a look at his portrait glasses and when and under which cirumstances he engraved glass .. i think there won`t be such an engraver in the future ..
http://www.museum-kunst-palast.de/UNIQ128532236305005/doc297A
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I don't know much about engravers, particularly from the past. However, there are a few contemporary artists around whose work is gobsmackingly beautiful.
I hope Lesley Pike might be at the National in November, these doesn't seem to be any sort of exhibitor list on the site, (but I'm afraid I find that site really difficult to look at, far less use - the Cambridge one is far easier).
http://www.lesleypyke.com/
Then there's Denis Mann here in Scotland. http://www.denismann.com/
And Chris Ainslie... http://www.ainslieglass.co.uk/
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great links !
dennismann - great !
lesleypyke - great ! ( although its a different kind of engraving - but nice anyway )
ainslieglass - also very nice !
probably you know http://www.edmondartglass.com/
a master of engraving endeed !!
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Nick Davey at Dartington Crystal does some gobsmackingly beautiful stuff, though I can't find much online.
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You might like to look at some of the work of the magnificent "Gordon" clan from West Australia.
http://www.gordonstudio.com.au/engravers/studio.html gets you to the patriarch Alisdair and matriarch Rish - both truly exquisite engravers.
http://www.kevingordon.com.au/ gets you to son Kevin who is special in his own right.
If you love art glass daughter Eileen & her husband Grant Donaldson live near me in Melbounre, Australia and I am told their 12yo is already blowing glass. As far as I know they do not engrave only create hot glass. You can see there work at http://www.gordonstudio.com.au/
ALSO Tony Hanning of Gippsland c. 100 miles East of Melbourne has been creating exquisite engraved and etched glass for many years. He does not seem to have his own website.
You can see good examples of Tony's Alisdair's and Rish's work at the Kirra Gallery site http://www.kirragalleries.com/kirra/
Ross
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stunning magnificent outrageous georgous wooooow
really a cracker !
cameo at its very best !!!
so many thx for these links !!
t.
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>:( >:( >:(
These images are not good for me Ross. I can't afford them, they're WAY out of my league, and I crave a bit by Kevin - (I can't see any images of his parents' work :-\, maybe my computer blocks them?).
You're a cruel, cruel man. :cry:
I have a very strong preference for colour - and I think cut and engraved stuff is so much better on colour.
(I do have a bit by Chris Ainslie though, not one of his most expensive or most complex, but I could afford it. He's a lovely chap - used to just do it as a hobby - and one vase alone used to take about 3 months. I think his career is booming a bit since he "retired".)
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what is the name of the famous C19 engraved tazza/dish/bowl (English I think) - thought lost, then parts of which turned up in the mid C20. I've seen pics. of the remants in (I think) Charles Hajdamach's book on C19 glass. Mind blowing detailed engraving, if you've never seen it. At work now, so can't lay my hands on the page in question. Someone assist please, although just thought - we probably can't show images I guess :)
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i know what you mean - only a part of it has survived ! do not know at the moment - what and where . was found a few years ago i think in london ...
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The late Patrick McMahon (Artcrystal of Cumbria) who sadly died at the too young age of 55 of a brain tumour on New Year's Day this year. Sadly our only topic about him on the board has lost its Tinypics, but I used to see his work when I was in Grange and drool. I'm trying to locate photo examples for reference now - I don't own a single piece of his work, which is dreadful considering how close he worked to me. :-[
Edited to add: I now have 2 small Patrick McMahon engraved pieces, and there's another topic here with another example (in the same design as mine but on a different shaped piece.) http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,37458.0.html
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Sue you can see Alisdair & Rish's work on their site. Click on Folio. A blank strip appears in the middle and in very faint writing there are two buttons at the top left of the strip. Click on one and wait about 5 seconds pictures should appear - if not just try again. I assume you are on cable or the delays may be longer.
I have one piece by Rish & Eileen - I assume Rish engraved the plate Eileen had created. An early piece it cost c. 0.5% of a modern one - bought at auction. I also have a Tony Hanning - again a very early piece of moths, at a shop about 2.5% of the current cost to buy one. As you can see his work is stunning these days
Ross
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Just thought of another great engraver, here in Australia, who passed away at 85yo in 2007 - Anne Dybka. I saw a little of her work in Canberra. Apparently she worked with and for many companies. Can't seem to find pictures of her work. Alas I could not afford it when I saw it.
Ross
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what is the name of the famous C19 engraved tazza/dish/bowl (English I think) - thought lost, then parts of which turned up in the mid C20. I've seen pics. of the remants in (I think) Charles Hajdamach's book on C19 glass. Mind blowing detailed engraving, if you've never seen it. At work now, so can't lay my hands on the page in question. Someone assist please, although just thought - we probably can't show images I guess :)
You're thinking of the Morrison Tazza. Shown on pages 144 & 145 or Hajdamach's "British Glass 1800 - 1914"
Mind blowing indeed! :thud:
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spot on !!! thats it !! :hiclp:
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I just did an internet search on it - which brought me straight back here...
http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php?topic=1546.0
It would seem the remnants are in Broadfield House. You'll see it when you visit, Thomas!
(Might be an idea to contact them first to check it's on display - and to ask them to get it out for you if it isn't. :thup:)
(also, in Broadfield House, there is a claret jug [with a wonky handle] by Allister Malcolm - it's the "prototype" for the one he made for me. Sort of. Because the handle went wonky, and it's the very last bit to be done, he had to start from scratch again.)
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If its Cameo you are talking about take a look at Helen Millards work absolutely stunning,
i believe she is exhibiting at Cambridge this Sunday . WOW :mrgreen: :hiclp:
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Wilhelm von Eiff for sheer abstraction.
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wilhelm von eiff is absolute great !!!!!
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Agree with JP re Helen Millard - her work is fab-u-lous!
http://www.helenmillard.co.uk/
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I love Katherine Coleman's work.
http://www.hill49.demon.co.uk/GALLERY.htm
My favourite engraved piece is a piece called Wessex Nightfall by Laurence Whistler - very evocative piece.
m
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very interesting work !!
and whistler is amazing anyway !
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I hope Lesley Pike might be at the National in November, these doesn't seem to be any sort of exhibitor list on the site, (but I'm afraid I find that site really difficult to look at, far less use - the Cambridge one is far easier).
Hi Sue , and any others who feel the National Glass Fair site is a little difficult to navigate,it's really quite simple , from the Home Page you will see a tab on the left ,
HOME >
Contact
location
fair details > hover mouse on the arrow another tab appears
Future fairs,
Exhibitors ,( there it is!!! )
floor plans.
etc.
Hope that helps, OK back to packing for Cambridge, and back on the topic, there will be a lot of 17thc and 18thc engraved glass for all to see (stand 4) ,obviously not in the same form and style of the 19thc and 20thc pieces being discussed ,but a wonderfull look at the forerunners and best exponents of engraving at the time .
Cheers ,
Peter.
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Hi Peter, it's that great static vertical band of "nothing" on the left occupying most of the screen that most irritates me about the site - that and the fact that "hovering mice" bits keep vanishing. The static band means any images that come up are amost unviewable, they're so small. I rapidly get so annoyed I give up.
And I can't physically get to Cambridge anyway.
Hope you have a good time at Cambridge! :thup:
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Oh well , as if by magic :tof: the 'Cambridge Glass Fair' site has changed try this link for the new site
http://www.cambridgeglassfair.com/index.htm
possibly cookies are not not taking you to the recent site and the one you are taken to sounds corrupted to me ,
cheers ,
Peter.
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The Cambridge site is fine Peter - it's the National one I dislike intensely.
But it's Cambridge I cannot get to, logistics and the expense of getting there make it simply out of the question.
I'm coming to the National though. :thup:
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oooooooooooooooops :-[ the brain was obviously a little dead after returning from cambridge.
cheers ,
Peter.
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I did mention this to Christina and Paul so i am sure they will check it out .
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Alison Kinnaird, Ronald Pennell, Jiri Harcuba, Katherine Coleman, Helen Millard
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Drahoňovský, Josef (1877 - 1938)
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Where is the *smug* emoticon when I need it?
Lustrousstone and I have just returned from the Scottish Glass Conference, where we've been meeting and talking to and hobnobbing with Alison Kinnaird, Denis Mann and Katherine Coleman .......... just to name a few. ;D
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Groupie! Have you looked at Katharine Coleman's work yet. :o
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Brain not functioning, Christine - I've just modified my post to include you, (I had taken it as a "given" that everybody understood we were in it together :-[ ) - and yes, i've just drooled over her work there - (much nicer bits than the barley piece I saw in the bookelt).
I've come away from the conference with a much, much better understanding of all their work, for which I'm very grateful and glad.
You know I'm a bit of a glassmaker "groupie" I come over all stupid and teenybopperish when I meet eminent glass artists.
The big problem with that is I find it difficult to have ocnversations with them as if they are "normal" people......
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Both Alasdair & Rish Gordon were over for the conference too.
In the UK you have one benefit in that Alasdair is not as well known as in Australia UK and it is possible to find his signed work from his studio at Strathearn link (http://www.scotlandsglass.co.uk/cms/index.php?option=com_virtuemart&page=shop.browse&category_id=328&Itemid=6) at affordable prices, rarely offered under his name.
To my mind the stipple engraving is about the best there is, I have yet to see a photograph that conveys the sheer depth and richness that can be achieved with the technique - since Whistler I do not know of anyone continuing this particular skill.
Copper wheel is a very good second and sadly in recess with virtually no teaching available.
Today, speed and cost are of the essence and the days when it was possible for an engraver to have the chance to work for 2 years on single piece are long gone.
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since Whistler I do not know of anyone continuing this particular skill.
James Denison Pender?
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pender is absolute fantastic !!!
http://www.glassengrave.co.uk/ :fr:
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And I'm shocked you've never heard of him Frank :thud: - he's in the Scottish Glass Society, I've seen his work frequently in their exhibitions. Always seems to be displayed in tiny black lined boxes, with it's own lighting.
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Oh lugger, not in my directory either :huh:
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Another one to watch that combines all of the engraving methods is Junko Eager http://www.junkoeager.co.uk/seasons.html
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great artist indeed- i amnot sure about the mixing of copper wheel and flexible drill engraved... but the fish are great - love them !! thx for that link ! :hiclp:
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Easy — in the artist class where time was the artist's own and not a constraint, then Laurence Whistler for his Galaxy window, one of those great works that you can see time and time again, seeing something new and amazing each time.
In the artisan class, paid piecework rates, first overall is Mr Douglas' Deer Hunt, Walsh pattern A5263, which is simply mindblowing. I'm convinced that Clyne Farquharson was involved in this amazing design — the earliest Walsh pattern clearly showing his influence. Mr Douglas was paid 8/6 for his work on this 14" bowl.
Then, in the pond category (waterlilies, irises, bulrushes, &c.) Mr Douglas' Waterlily & Iris, Walsh pattern A5231, for which he was paid 9/- for his work on the 14" bowl. My favourite is the amethyst vase in the pattern shown in Leibe & Hayhurst p.38, which hides a surprising secret, just about visible if you approch the photograph with a very open mind. Don't worry if you can't see it — it took me about six or seven years!
Finally, in the floral category, anything by Jack Lloyd, whose fresh and delightful work stands head and shoulders above a pretty mediocre crowd.
Bernard C. 8)
ps — I've not considered anything anonymous, which includes some lovely engraving designed by Keith Murray and others from factories like S&W and Webb.
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These old timers take some beating though , David Wolff ex Drambuie Collection
Cheers ,
Peter.
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Wow Peter, never seen that... exquisite!
I guess the problem is that engraving is such an individual art and thus appeals to the observer's taste. The richness of what has been engraved is mostly hidden as, mostly, each work is unique and a b ugger to photograph. We can only expect to experience first hand a dribble of what has been done. Unlike most forms of glass art it really does need to be seen and handled to fully experience it.
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Lots of people have suggested names for "best engraver," but few have addressed the second half of the question - why? To me it seems there are at least two aspects to the question: who is most adept with the tools, and who does great design (and obviously they aren't always the same person on a given piece of glass!). It can be further broken down into categories, as Bernard did. One could look at who did the most realistic portraits, scenes, floral, etc...who did the best stylized portraits, scenes, floral...who was/is best at cut-to-clear...most innovative...great overall design...best at the fine line, non-representational, ornate stuff (along the lines of much Lobmeyr, for instance), etc. And as Bernard points out, much of what was done in the past is not signed or recorded. Tough question, with many answers!
To me stipple engraving, even though there are many excellent and beautiful examples of it, can't be regarded in the same way as wheel engraving. It is essentially a drawing method applied to glass, whereas wheel engraving isn't the same applied to other materials because of the way it affects the reflection and transmission of light. Neither is "better" than the other, but as a method of glass ornamentation I think wheel engraving is more variable and flexible in the way it can be used.
Interesting discussion! Lots of great examples of modern glass workers - it's nice to see the art is not dead yet!
(By the way, George Woodall is my favorite I think)
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You missed aspect 3 and probably the most lacking in the engraving world - who is the best artist.
This is why I feel stipple beats the field as it allows the most expressive work. Yes there are some dam ned good copper wheel engravers but mostly it is copied art, and yes the expressiveness is copper wheel varies enormously by engraver. But if you experience what Whistler did at close quarters (lost in photos) something hits the gut. At that level it is such a personal issue that the concept of best simply drops out of the equation. Nothing I have seen in glass has had quite the 'gut' impact on me as seeing and handling a piece of Whistlers work.
Well not quite true, there was one more, a cameo piece of an Eskimo in Kayak (It is in Hadjamach 1800-1914 and is now at Broadfield House) but the engraver slips my mind. This piece had that gut effect too, as I turned it in my hand it was like experiencing a surreal form of movie... it just lived. I think it was Hodgett.
Apart from that I have been awed at the skill of many but not had that gut impact. Outside of glass there are a few paintings and sculptures that have impacted me, some of which I have the joy of owning and never regretted.
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quote =====To me stipple engraving, even though there are many excellent and beautiful examples of it, can't be regarded in the same way as wheel engraving. It is essentially a drawing method applied to glass, whereas wheel engraving isn't the same applied to other materials because of the way it affects the reflection and transmission of light. Neither is "better" than the other, but as a method of glass ornamentation I think wheel engraving is more variable and flexible in the way it can be used.=====
Sorry ::)But I really cant agree with the above comment 'stippling is essentially a drawing method applied to glass'.
Stippling is created by removing tiny dots of glass with a diamond point, IE the removal of glass to create an image,the same as wheel engraving removes glass and also Cameo cut glass,the difference with stippling is that its what's not been removed that creates the image(as is cameo cut glass) and these images to me are the most ethereal I have ever come across in any medium and probably the hardest to achieve,borne out by the fact that until a very very few 20THC exponents revived the art it was primarily the domain of the 18THC Dutch stippler's,who in their day were more highly regarded and much fewer than the very many wonderfull wheel engravers working concurrently,
with regard to the 'reflection and transmission of light' on stipple engraved glass until you have had 1 in the hand and noticed that until the glass is held and looked at from the same angle as when the stippling was done the result is almost completely hidden from the eye,get the correct angle for viewing and Hay Presto the image appears, which is why they are so difficult to photograph,
I am not saying that stippling is the best form of engraving ,cutting,carving, but surely their extreme rarity,(only 12 or so are known world wide having 3 putti on clouds like mine by wolff) and desirability put stipple engravers somewere near the top of the 'best evers'
cheers ,
Peter.
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Hee hee, I thought that might raise a few comments!
"You missed aspect 3 and probably the most lacking in the engraving world - who is the best artist."
I would argue that the best artist combines the two other aspects I mentioned: best designer, and most adept with the tools (well, ok, and having the best understanding of the medium...and the worst temper, and the weirdest habits, lowest income, etc. Oh wait, that's me, and I ain't the best artist in town. Yet :X: :sm:). And "most lacking in the engraving world"? I'd definitely disagree with that! Thems fightin' words! ;D :vkg:
It's true that I haven't handled stippled work, but I've seen it up close and know how it's done. I still think it's basically a drawing method, although the tools, medium and outcome are different - just as they are when applied to a copper plate when printmaking. It was an outgrowth of diamond point line engraving, which was practiced in Holland principally by amateurs, according to Buckley's The Art of Glass . There are stippled pieces out there that aren't gut-wrenching - there's nothing about the method (or the rarity of its use) per se that makes a piece of glass beautiful. Clearly Whistler was an outstanding artist!
If I implied stipple didn't involve reflection and transmission of light, I was wrong about that...of course it does. But both wheel engraving and stipple rely on what hasn't been removed to create their effects. I don't see the difference there.
Wheel engraving is mostly copied art? I don't understand that, and it's certainly not something that separates it from stipple. Frans Greenwood, the "father" of stipple, did mostly copies of copper engravings, and he wasn't alone in using them for inspiration - in fact, a likeness of Greenwood stippled on glass was copied from a copper engraving.
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Taste in art is completely subjective.
My own taste jumps straight from Mediaeval to 20th century. It does not really stop off anywhere inbetween, with the very odd exception, although I've certainly seen enough of it to give it a really good chance.
I can't really comment on a lot of engraved stuff, because I simply detest the images portrayed.
For me then, Denis Mann, must be one of those right at the top, the execution of the hands in "Dischord" equals that of Durer, and the the wit and originality of the piece most definitely confirms him as an original artist as well as one of the most most technically competent.
Similar comments can also be made about Alison Kinnarid and Katharine Coleman - real artists.
While I can appreciate the technical competence of some of the other work which has been suggested, I just wonder why they wasted their time drawing putrescent putti and copying other stuff which simply leaves me cold.
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quote==== 'Taste in art is completely subjective'.====== of course this is 100% correct however comments such as .
quote==== 'I just wonder why they wasted their time drawing putrescent putti and copying other stuff'=== !!!!!!!!???????
lets take for example the superb stippled glasses by Wolff and Alius carrying the image of innocent little cherubs rolling barrels into a celler and toasting themselves ,with the inscription' Hansie in de kelder ' these fine glasses were commissioned by the elite of the day to announce to their assembled guests,( who would have been presented with the glass to use), that the hostess was 'With Child' , which was the polite custom of the day, witty, origional,not copied and completely unique,and with regard to wheel engraved glasses , lets now look at an example by jacob Sang mid 18thc Amsterdam one of the finest wheel engravers of his time , called a 'friendship glass' though to the recipient a far clearer message is contained in the image (see pic) , more than friendship is being asked for !!!, again origional,witty and superbly engraved,
I think both of the glasses quoted display all the characteristics reffered to in Sue(m)'s post'
'the wit and originality of the (those) piece(S) most definitely confirms him (them) as an original artist(s) as well as one(some) of the most most technically competent.'
Cheers .
Peter.
ps pic does not do the quality of the engraving justice,and Alius's 'Hansie in de Kelder will follow when i figure out how to photgraph an almost invisible subject :X:
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A quick snap of ' Hansie in de Kelder' by the stippler named 'Alius' so named as there are no known signed examples of his work and attribution is made by comparison and the differences in his style to other known and signed stipples,and if i may add , though i do accept that rarity is no measurement for quality,this example is unrecorded in current literature and is possibly a unique example by one of the finest exponants of stipple engraving.
ps much fun has been had with this glass, on first look in the hand by most the stippling is completely hidden to the eye, as said before, untill the correct angle for veiwing is used , :thud: pretty neat !!!! eh !!!! :hiclp:
Cheers ,
Peter.
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quote==== "You missed aspect 3 and probably the most lacking in the engraving world - who is the best artist." ===
I really do think the only acceptable answer to this question is , 'the artist that you admire the most' , one mans meat another mans poison etc ,I seriously dont think it would be possible to single out any 1 person either past or present who would qualify to all as 'The Best',which is why glass in all its various forms styles and ages appeals to such a huge variety of people
Cheers ,
Peter.
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I'm well aware I'm a bit odd, Peter, babies give me the heebie-jeebies and the announcement of an imminent arrival, I'm afraid fills me with despair for the poor, innocent mite thrust, without it's permission, into this dreadful, hellish and rapidly deteriorating, over-populated world. I simply cannot see anything remotely "happy" about the arrival of one.
No need for anybody to try to explain it to me, please. I know it's just my own, very carefully considered, point of view.
The sooner humans are extinct, the sooner the planet can start to recover from them. We are the biggest natural disaster the planet has ever known.
It's a good job I'm an optimist! :usd:
However, I do appreciate the artistic wit and merit of these pieces, now I understand them a bit better, thanks to your explanation. :thup:
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A quick snap of ' Hansie in de Kelder' by the stippler named 'Alius' so named as there are no known signed examples of his work and attribution is made by comparison and the differences in his style to other known and signed stipples,and if i may add , though i do accept that rarity is no measurement for quality,this example is unrecorded in current literature and is possibly a unique example by one of the finest exponants of stipple engraving.
ps much fun has been had with this glass, on first look in the hand by most the stippling is completely hidden to the eye, as said before, untill the correct angle for veiwing is used , :thud: pretty neat !!!! eh !!!! :hiclp:
Cheers ,
Peter.
stunning museal wonderful piece !!!!!!!!! :hiclp: :hiclp:
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A couple of weeks ago I had the great honour of accepting an invitation to give a talk at the AGM of the Guild of Glass Engravers http://www.gge.org.uk/.
On that occasion I reiterated a long held (and personal) view on the distinction between art and craft as applied to engraved glass. With works on paper it is considered usual to draw a distinction between illustration and art. The draughtsmanship shown by the illustrator may often be superlative but it is not the ability to draw, per se, that defines fine art.
Thus for me, the acid test is always to consider whether if one were to "remove" the work from the glass and apply it to paper or canvas, would it end up being described as art or illustration? And would one be impressed with it on that basis, or was it simply that when it appeared on glass, with its "extra" qualities, that one became impressed?
Art comes from the heart and makes one's heart beat. Illustration may be of superlative quality and in the case of some excellent engraved glass may demonstrate excellent craftsmanship, but this does not make it art.
Many engravers, and often collectors of their work, get so hung up on the technique and craftsmanship that the content pales into insignificance. It doesn't matter whether it is copper wheel, stipple, drill engraved, sandblasted or a combination of all of these. What matters is that it sings to you and makes your heart soar, or stops you in your tracks and makes you think.
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Absolutely Adam. However you then come up on the problem of 'Art' as it was before Modernism and Impressionism freed the artists from the constraints of acceptable portrayal and the need to abide by current period rules. Thus you have a whole group of work in glass engraving from before the late 19th Century that mostly sinks into the mire of illustration. Yet there were people that expressed themselves subtly before that timeframe. There are Putti and there are Putti, And yes some of those can make your heart sing... or your gut... or whatever part of your anatomy responds to your emotions.
But wile I do not like it personally there is also a successful body of art that has the intellect as it's primary reference and objective. And to a certain extent this is the body of work that is generally most regarded by a majority, simply because it does not cause any emotional upheaval and allows a lot of polite and intelligent conversation.
It cannot be ignored as it is a part of our rich variety as a species and for that group discussion about best is highly relevant. But the artist that delivers from the gut is my preference and then the argument about best is fun. Whistlers work is largely lame subjects and clearly fall into the illustrative camp, at least in a book, but held in the hand and moving a piece around it explodes in the gut. So does the apparent content matter? The advantage is clearly to the gut orientated artist that has also mastered technical ability.
On a visit to the V&A some years ago they had brought up a stack of Monart from the cellars to ask my opinion. I immediately grabbed a piece that sang its song to me - the curator was horrified "You cannot touch it with your bare hands" and handed me gloves. Victory for the non-gut. As so much gut art needs and demands to be handled, particularly glass. Half the song comes through the hands, The blind man when viewing a painting can only appreciate it through touch, they are much more sensitive to the artists emotions than those of us blessed with functional eyes. But if I cannot handle a glass object it becomes to a certain extent 'just' an illustration.
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"Thus for me, the acid test is always to consider whether if one were to "remove" the work from the glass and apply it to paper or canvas, would it end up being described as art or illustration? And would one be impressed with it on that basis, or was it simply that when it appeared on glass, with its "extra" qualities, that one became impressed?"
I'm so surprised to hear you say this, Adam. This completely takes away the power of the medium to contribute to the work! That's like saying a picture of a sculpture is representative of the sculpture, and depth and the ability to see the work from different perspectives are simply "extras." The wonder of glass is its optical qualities, which can usually be best appreciated by movement of a piece, the light, and/or the viewer (although some rich cut glass designs I like best in a photo, where the razzle dazzle is simplified into shades and patterns).
"And to a certain extent this is the body of work that is generally most regarded by a majority, simply because it does not cause any emotional upheaval and allows a lot of polite and intelligent conversation." This seems quite an assumption. Is the majority capable of a polite and intelligent conversation? >:D
Tellling an artist a piece makes ones heart beat is the best compliment one could give him/her, I reckon.
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Adam's definition does take away from the ability of the medium to influence the glass, but I think I see what he's getting at. With photography, it's easy to oooh and aaah at a well-taken picture, but my criteria for deciding whether it really 'sings' for me is whether I'd want to live with it every day - whether, when surrounded by everyday items and familiar, it would still lift my spirits to look at it. So I imagine it out of context and on my wall, and that helps me decide whether or not I really like it.
If an image etched on glass is tacky, you can probably see that it is immediately. But it's only when you imagine it on paper that you understand why--you might be hit by the full force that it's the sort of thing that could be found printed on a brown velour bedspread and owned by the wearer of a Three Wolf Moon t-shirt. (No offence meant to anyone owning a Three Wolf Moon t-shirt, by the way!)
If someone has worked with the glass to produce an image that, say, makes use of the refractive qualities of the medium, or works with the transparency, would it make up for cliched subject matter?
Peter, I have to ask - are those engraved chickens doing what they look like they're doing?
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hm i think they do what they seem to do :vkg:
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HI ,
Yes the chickens are doing exactly as the image suggests , as I said in the post ,this glass,inscribed 'for good friendship' clearly indicates that something more than friendship is being requested , engraved friendship glasses are fairly common usually depicting clasped hands and flaming hearts etc emerging from clouds etc,but a very few are much more explicit,eroticism being much more acceptable and even openly enjoyed amongst the upper classes, those being the ones who could afford such finely engraved glasses.
pic is a more commonly found example of a frienship glass , again by Jacob sang
Cheers ,
Peter.
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Though this 1 is also quite exceptional being 1 of only 6 or so known examples with the poem inscribed on the reverse,
written c1740 by Dirk Smits Gedichten of Rotterdam:
MIND GY EDELE VRIENDSCHAP TEEDER (If you value tender, noble friendship)
VULD MY DAN TOOT AAN DEN RAND (Then fill me to the brim)
DRINKT MY LEEG, AND VULD MY WEEDER (Drink me empty and refill me)
STELD MY ZOO UW VRIEND TER HAND (And thus hand me to your friend)
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and the only known example to retain its origional lid :thud:
Peter
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I have laboured long and hard to get some half-decent images of my Alison Kinnaird piece, but I'm giving it it's own thread in British and Irish Glass.
It deserves it. :rah:
http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,37022.0.html