Topic: Fostoria England???

[krsilber]

I just stumbled on this archived thread (reply #2) that mentions in passing a Fostoria England, implying that Fostoria patterns were made there.  Is there any truth to this?

[Lustrousstone]

It may be one of those cyber myths, but there are certainly English "Cube/American" patterns by Bagley (Honeycomb), Jobling (penultimate row)  and Davidson ( but "rare" is very wishful thinking) that get mistaken for Fostoria. (More on Davidson here here scroll down). All have clear versions

[krsilber]

Ah...in the case of American, there are also [LINK REMOVED ]US companies that did lookalikes[/url].  From the post I referred to, it sounded like actual Fostoria molds were sent to England and used.  My guess is that's a myth.  The only instance I know of where US molds have been bought by an overseas company is Chippendale.  I wonder if there are others.  Thanks for the reply and the links!

Mod: Links to clicksnipwow removed as site is no longer connected to glass. Please visit http://chataboutdg.com/forums/ and use the search function instead

[Glen]

This is not an answer to the above question, it is just a pointer to an article that includes some information about the copying of patterns/ transfer of moulds etc.  More questions than answers.

http://www.geocities.com/carni_glass_uk_2000/MarinhaGrande.html

gt

[krsilber]

Thanks, Glen, that is interesting work.  I've been looking for Sunk Daisy by Cambridge for comparison, but haven't come up with anything.  There's one called Sunk Daisy by Cooperative Flint, but that's a bit different.  The closest Cambridge pattern I've found is here - could that be the one you're talking about (wish they listed a reference!)?  Here's another example, this time with the intriguing name "Archfoot Daisy" (though it's footless!), reminding me of the one in carnival glass in your article.  Oh, and here are several examples, about 1/3 of the way down the page.  OMN apparently Daisy, and usually marked Nearcut.  Came out in 1908.

Certainly does look like a rip-off of the Marinha Grande piece!  Doesn't surprise me too much; many EAPG patterns were copies of other pressed or cut patterns.  Still, for it to be from a Portuguese company - that's unexpected!  Very interesting.

[Glen]

Kristi - the reference I give in my web article (i.e. http://www.geocities.com/carni_glass_uk_2000/MarinhaGrande.html ) is Carnival Glass: The Magic & The Mystery Ist Edition, 1998 (Thistlewood & Thistlewood: Schiffer 1998) in which "we first uncovered the various makers of the Sunk Daisy pattern. I didn't expand on that specific point in the web article as most Carnival collectors will be aware of that research and the Cambridge reference.

In Carnival Glass: The Magic & The Mystery Ist Edition, in the Chapter on Sweden, we explored in detail our findings regarding the Cambridge pattern, and we explained that it was apparently the same pattern as Cambridge's #2760, named "Red Sunflower" by Minnie Watson Kamm in her Second Two Hundred Pattern Glass Book. We had previously spotted the pattern in a 1910 Butler Brothers catalog and followed the trail from there.

Carnival Glass collectors gave the pattern the name "Sunk Daisy" in the 1980s. They were unaware of any other name for the pattern at the time; our subsequent research that uncovered the Cambridge connection was in the mid 1990s. The "Sunk Daisy" pattern is positively known in Carnival Glass from both Eda Glasbruk (Sweden, where it was known as "Amerika") and Riihimaki (Finland), as per catalog evidence.

The lengthy history of this Pattern of Many Names is complex!

gt

[krsilber]

Glen, I hope you didn't think I was correcting your naming!  My post was more just a ramble that accompanied my own exploration of the pattern.  I did wonder where the "Red Sunflower" name came from.  'Tis indeed a pattern of many names - at least three for the Cambridge one alone!  Interesting that Eda Glasbruk called it "Amerika" when it wasn't even American to begin with...I wonder if their first sight of it was the Cambridge version, rather than the Marinha Grande one.

I was just discussing with some people on another board authors' and collectors' propensity for naming patterns and how confusing that can sometimes make things.  Perfectly understandable of course, especially when a pattern is made by multiple companies.

I know very little about carnival glass, or EAPG for that matter.  It's always interesting to read about different types of glass, and I enjoyed learning about the connections among such widely dispersed companies through the pattern.  Thanks for posting the link!

[Glen]

Kristi - no, I didn't think you were correcting my naming......I was just filling in the background detail for you. And yes, I am almost certain that the reason behind the Swedish name "Amerika" was that they believed it to be the original source of the design.

Regarding the propensity of collectors and authors to name patterns (happens a lot), it is something that Steve and I have always worked hard to get back to source. Wherever possible we aim to cite the original name (if there was one) and in our books we always give all the known pattern names etc. That alone can take quite a bit of researching!

gt