Topic: Jack Lloyd — the missing 27 years, with some thoughts on glass apprenticeships

[Bernard C]

Hajdamach II tells us that Jack Lloyd was born 18 June 1879 and that he served his apprenticeship at Stevens & Williams.   Suppose he left school at the age of 14, seven years of apprenticeship takes him to the age of 21 in the year 1900.   Hajdamach II also tells us that he joined the Stourbridge Glass Company (Tudor) about 1927.   What was he doing in between?

Some years ago I looked into the history of Stony Stratford's charities when my daughters went to University.   I discovered that they were eligible for grants, and accordingly applied on their behalf (and very useful they were too, helping with the cost of books, field trips, &c.)   One of these was Elmer's Apprenticing Charity, which had previously been used to provide a new set of tools for apprentices to The Print (McCorquodales) and The Works (LNWR Carriage Works) at the nearby town of Wolverton.   Looking further into this I discovered that both had a policy of sacking apprentices at the successful conclusion of their apprenticeship, and hiring from successful apprentices trained elsewhere, bringing in new people, skills and ideas.   For this system to work it must have been fairly widespread.   So I wondered whether it applied to the Stourbridge glass works.   If it did, then around 1900 Jack Lloyd may have been forced to leave Stevens & Williams.   If so where did he go?

Benson, in his Art Deco to Post Modernism, gives two possible clues.   He says that about half of the original (1921) Stourbridge Glass Company workforce of 70 had come from Thomas Webb, and that by the start of the war the workforce was up to about 150.   Also he says that Jack Lloyd learned his trade under the auspices of craftsmen such as Bohm, Keller and Kay (sic).   I hadn't realised that Bohm had come to England, nor can I find any reference to it, so Benson's comment about Bohm may be just a simple "influenced by".   Alternatively "Bohm" could be an earlier spelling or a misprint for Boam, i.e. H.J. Boam of Thomas Webb.   I can't find a "Kay", so this might be a misprint for "Kny", either Frederick E. Kny of Thomas Webb or, just possibly, Ludwig Kny of Stuart.

Did Jack Lloyd spend most or all of these 27 years at Thomas Webb, joining the earlier exodus to the Stourbridge Glass Company around 1927?   Is his signature known on glass other than that produced by the Stourbridge Glass Company (Tudor)?

A more fundamental question is whether glass authors have always assumed that successful apprentices continued with the same employer, when the opposite could be the reality, at least in Britain.

Any ideas or help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks for your interest,

Bernard C.  

[Leni]

Is his signature known on glass other than that produced by the Stourbridge Glass Company (Tudor)?

I would have thought that an engraver, newly employed following an apprenticeship, would not be encouraged to sign his or her work until their worth was recognised and they had - literally - 'made a name for themselves'.  So it could be possible that his work was unsigned for several years.

Interesting topic Bernard.  Thank you for raising it.  I hope someone else can usefully contribute some information and answer your questions 

[Ming]

Bernard
I think l can answer part of the question. I remember when l talked to John Sanders(expert on Jack Lloyd) last year. He mentioned J.L. was working as Head of Intaglio Dept. at Webb before going to Tudor.
Ming

[nigel benson]

Bernard,

Firstly, thank you for identifying a missed typo. Kay should indeed read Kny. Another correction for the kitty  :huh:

I have done a quick check and found that Jack Lloyd worked at Webb & Corbett Ltd, under the William Kny who was manager of the decorating shop. He was considered one of Kny's chief engravers and worked there between 1901 and 1927. He then moved to Thomas Webb. I'm guessing he was there for more than a year, since Hajdamach says

....about 1927.

Ellis J., Glassmakers of Stourbridge and Dudley 1612-2002, to see references for this information. I cannot immediately source the references for your quotes from our catalogue, but that should keep you going for now

Nigel

[Bernard C]

Thanks everyone for your replies.

I've ordered a copy of Ellis as it's obviously an essential reference.

Apart from the exact date of birth, all the other information I sourced from Hajdamach II was first published in Dodsworth, BGbtW, 1987, item 6 p.49.

Bernard C.