Topic: Cavalier marriage goblet? jar help please.

[brucebanner]

Any thoughts on this one, no UV glow, a heavily worn base on the outer rim and a nice lead crystal ring, the upper rim has a nicely polished bevel edge on the inner and outer surface.

Looks like a French cavalier and a lady holding lily of the valley, the base is flat.

Not sure if it once had a lid .

6 1/2 inches in height, 4 inches across the rim and 3 1/4 inches across the base, it could very easily measure in cm.

Regards Chris.

[Paul S.]

apparently massive symbolism in the l-of-v .............   but not sure what he's supposed to be offering.             Friendship glass perhaps?

Don't know that you could say specifically French  -  the clothing might equally be C19 States  -  sort of Quaker fashion with the woman's head covering etc., or other mainstream Continental country  as suggested by the bevelling   -    Dutch perhaps?

Is it real enamelling or just thin flashing  -  the condition of the decoration looks to be very good for the age it's suggesting.

sorry of no real help Chris  -  but looks attractive.

[Ivo]

The style is correct for ca 1800, the dress looks correct for regional France (Brittany) and the guy with the large cake knife is as French as it gets. It could be a 19th century fantasy piece, of course.

[Paul S.]

As a matter of interest Chris, was this sold to you as per your subject description?              Some cakes they must have in Brittany

[brucebanner]

No it was a 20 quid Ebay buy from a blurred picture, the enamel is thick and the decoration on  the skirt is a hairs thickness. What has me worried is the bevel edge, i doubt a modern machine could produce such a uniform cut let alone doing it by hand,

[Paul S.]

the very unworn quality of the decoration looks quite remarkable.

[glassobsessed]

No dishwashers in those days Paul...

John

[Paul S.]

 

[flying free]

I'm not sure on this one.  To me, the enamels don't look quite right for 1800, the yellow bands are too perfect and the white is too glossy.   Enamels normally photograph quite badly (i.e. they look worse in photos than they do in the hand) whereas this looks a bit the other way round.  The enamels look too good if you see what I mean.    But I could be wrong and you've possibly bought a splendid period example.
I'm not sure on the actual glass blank, of whether or not the techniques and execution are correct for the period. 
Ivo isn't he holding a glove and a goblet/ice cream in a tall bowl? 

This is an 18th century piece decorated with bands - it shows what I was trying to explain about the yellow bands on this goblet
https://ancientglass.wordpress.com/6-glass-study-gallery/eropean-misc-glass-spanish-glass-and-enameled-decorated-glass/#jp-carousel-3914


m

[Paul S.]

quote ..................  "What has me worried is the bevel edge, i doubt a modern machine could produce such a uniform cut let alone doing it by hand...."

I'd always thought that we're taught the opposite i.e. that machines create too precisely and accurately, and that this is a factor when considering if something is hand made or machine made.            Handwork is supposed to produce irregularities.
The guy could be offering a betrothal piece.

Of course the damage does reduce the value - so maybe £20. is fair enough, but my concern is still the lack of wear to the decoration on the sides of the piece  -  but then again the tankard in m's link looks to have decoration in very good condition.