Topic: Decanter

[Laird]

A few days ago, I bought this i litre capacity decanter for a fiver. The base rim is well scratched from use over the years, so it can't be a recent reproduction.
I think it is Victorian in 'Georgian' style. Is there such a classification?

[Paul S.]

hmmm  -  not so sure there really is, but expect someone will come along and say otherwise.               My opinion on this is that it's Prussian - but, telling the difference between bludgeons and Prussians can be difficult at times.     Most Prussians seem to have a star cut base, although doubtless there were some with a depression only, and it was a style given very much to ornate cutting, including plain and facet cut neck rings - combining some of the late C18 fashion with later Regency prisms, strawberry diamonds and fan splits.             Not sure I'm happy though with these inverted fan splits - somehow don't see this as being right, but who knows.            Assume the rings are hand applied - can dirt be seen down behind them?

Although this one may not be a Victorian copy of a late Georgian or Regency Prussian, it may very possibly be an early C20 copy.    In the first third of the C20 there was a demand for reproduction period glass, and Richardson's certainly were knocking it out at a rate of knots, and the London retails Hill Ouston were showing masses of it in their catalogues - so there is a high probability that, assuming it's a copy, then it originated in the C20.

Can't prove a thing of course, but my opinion would be that this is an early C20 copy of an early C19 Prussian  -  but regarding the presence of wear, even a decanter made in the middle of the C20 and used frequently, has the potential to show a lot of wear.           If this one is very clean, and lacks any staining, has virtually no damage, then I'd go for C20.              Also - the obvious question  -  does this bottle have matching Nos.?

And the height is   ...?         But whatever it's provenance, origin or age....  for a fiver it's got to be a bargain.

[Laird]

Many thanks for responding so comprehensively.

Height to the pouring flange is 23 cm / 9 inches, and it holds a litre.

The rings are applied and not moulded. It has a star cut base and no numbers or other ID marks.

The decanter was significantly stained with lime deposits and I've spent several days working through a range of cleaners to remove the scale. The most effective has been Jeyes toilet cleaner, the blue stuff used for removing scale from toilet bowls, which contains HCL. I started off with vinegar and progressed through salt and vinegar, dental tablets, dishwasher rinse aid, and pebbles swished around with vinegar, salt and ice. Finally, the pebbles with the Jeyes fluid was the most effective though not 100%. I am going to try a bottle of fluid used for cleaning off cement from old bricks. It is probably a more concentrated solution of hydrochloric acid than the toilet cleaner.

 

[Paul S.]

the cleaning of these things can bring out the most imaginative and ingenious of our efforts, and have we spent ink on this subject here in the past!, but you seem to have succeeded well - it looks quite clean now, but guess it should after all the chemicals you've put through it.

Do you agree with my thoughts - at least on the suggestion that this is a Prussian shape?

We say "lime/scale deposits" - which of course comes mostly from hard water - or I thought it did..........   and yet of course this decanter would never have contained water in that sense, and probably only alcohol - perhaps someone was watering down the booze

It's a shame that these decanter posts have such a lack of contributors - it seems to have always been the same unfortunately  -  I wonder if it's the lack of that expensive book that's responsible?

[Laird]

I've looked and compared with lots of pics in the glass collector books that I do have (I too would like a copy of that expensive book) and it seems to me that this decanter does tick the boxes for 'Prussian'. However, being a newcomer to this I am unable to be decisive.

[Paul S.]

sounds a bit like the joke      "I used to be indecisive, but now I'm not so sure".

I do have McConnell's Decanter book, and having looked at related shapes I think the only other style with which it could be confused is the bludgeon - which again is a shape with many slight variations, and common in the C19, so care needed when coming to a decision.      Anyway, I feel happy to call this one a Prussian.

[Laird]

Make no decision until both sides have been heard

I appreciate your decisiveness...

Many thanks for taking the time to review this decanter.

Prussian it is.

I let the matter rest.

[Laird]

The solution to removing lime scale deposits and cleaning a decanter is Coca Cola.
Having tried just about everything else, and not having been successful, I realized that Coke contains phosphoric acid. Phosphoric acid is used industrially to remove milk mineral deposits in silos, tanks, pipelines and heat exchanger equipment in dairy processing plants.
I tried it and can now say Coca Cola works wonders in decanters. Look no further. Coke is the answer.

[Paul S.]

huh!      .......   there's no need to get sniffy about it

glad it's worked for you.            If you have scale/lime deposit only, then that is removable, given several goes with a scale remover or coke - whichever you find works best/easiest, but............    the other non-rectifiable problem - short of the acid treatment mentioned earlier - is when the top few microns of glass are actually damaged, and then no amount of coke or whatever will help.            This problem may depend on how old your bottle is and the length of time it has contained alcohol, and wouldn't be half so bad if the inside surface of a decanter wasn't so inaccessible!

Just had a look on Abe Books - there seems to be two copies only of the Decanter Book available in the U.K. at the moment  -  one is £250 and the other £325.
Suppose you could give yourself the next three year's worth of Christmas presents in one go

[ahremck]

Maybe you can get some help from

http://www.lovedecanters.co.uk/

Ross