Topic: "Low wash bowl"

[glassobsessed]

I doubt the bowl at Scottish Antiques is uranium glass, bless them, occasionally their attributions for C20th glass have been a bit ropey. That has been to my great advantage a couple of times...

Forgot about this one, a fair bit smaller than many and part of a decorative group, now I would say definitely Salviati: https://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,53743.0.html

[catshome]

John, what a gorgeous group of pieces (insert green-faced emoji)!  So that's a 12 rib bowl with a confident Salviati attribution.  Do you think the information I have posted so far, particularly the Sotheby's link, is sufficient for a Pauly & C attribution for the 16 rib pieces?  If not, I'm not sure where to look next but I'm very reluctant to give up and just say "Murano".  The answer must be out there somewhere.......

[glassobsessed]

Looks like that bowl went unsold so nobody agreed with their valuation, no idea if that included the attribution too. Mmm, not sure about that size, sounds like they have measured the circumference and called it diameter. Exactly the same in their following lot too, a zanfico underplate, doubt very much it is 45cm in diameter which is about right for the circumference of the typical five or six inch plate usually found.

Not convinced here of those two, my default position is sceptical especially when there is no confirmation.

[catshome]

I had hoped that, as the pieces were from the Pauly & C collection, they would have been well documented by the company conservator/archivist.  I might try an email to Sotheby's to ask them.  If it's 73cm circumference, that's about 23cm/9" diameter.

[catshome]

Just had another look at the Sotheby's auction and found another one of these pieces was also included with the Pauly & C attribution, and 16 ribs again

http://www.sothebys.com/en/auctions/ecatalogue/lot.166.html/2005/the-pauly-collection-of-murano-glass-mi0257#conditionsOfSaleModal

As the pieces came from the "historical collection" of Pauly & C C.V.M., I feel it's as reliable an attribution for the 16 rib pieces as I am likely to find.

[KevinH]

Hi Cat, sorry for this but I am currently wearing my "pedant's cap".

You said:

As the pieces came from the "historical collection" of Pauly & C C.V.M., I feel it's as reliable an attribution for the 16 rib pieces as I am likely to find.

Is this suggesting that other similar items but with other than 16 ribs are not attributable to Pauly & Co.? Or has the point been covered previously?

[catshome]

Hi Kevin.  The ribs followed from John's piece, which he feels confident to attribute to Salviati - it has 12 ribs.   The Sotheby's pieces attributed to Pauly, had 16 ribs.  they may have made pieces with fewer ribs, and other companies may have made pieces with 16 - Ivo's aventurine version has 16 ribs and Venini has been suggested as the maker.  However, I didn't find anything to support that, and I don't have any specialist Italian glass books to search further.  I would be interested in your thoughts.

Many thanks
Cat

[KevinH]

Hi Cat,

My thoughts were ...

There has been admission of confusion within the Board about information on Pauly & Co, (See this post in a 2010 thread, for example.)

And connections via mergers ( see Wiki Pauly & Co info ) with such as Salviati & Co., C.V.M., and Paolo Venini are not easy to follow.

Also, Unfortunately, Glass fact file a-z (Ivo Haanstra) does not include an entry for Pauly & Co. so we are left to our own searches in a complex subject.

My main concern was that we now have examples on the GMB of the same style bowl in a variety of colours, sizes and rib numbers. Sixteen ribs seems to be the most common ... but which company made them?

Bearing in mind info from previous years that "Pauly & Co. (and also C.V.M. - see this thread from 2007 ) made their own glass but not all the time" ... The matches with the known 16-rib items from the Pauly & Co. collection could suggest that all such bowls with the 16-rib structure and matching colour are therefore Pauly & Co. And therefore, a non-match means they are NOT by Pauly & Co.

[Other permutations are freely avaiilable. ] Such as ... Assuming it was true, where did the glass come from when Pauly & Co. were not making their own? Did they simply outsource but provide working notes from existing items / patterns?

I think I am back to where I started - time to eat. 

[catshome]

Kevin, thank you for taking the time to give such a comprehensive reply.  It's clear that there is still a question mark over these pieces, and I wonder if it might be worth contacting the glass museum in Venice to see if they can shed any light on the subject.  I see there is an email address on their website, do you think it would be OK to send them a link to this thread and see if they respond? 

Thanks again
Cat

[KevinH]

Contacting the museum in Venice could be a good idea but ...

We have a thread with complex details and several links to other threads and I think it would be too much to ask of a museum to comment on the overall topic.

It would be a better strategy if you could produce a summary query with a just a few points to ask about.