Topic: A Decanter - From Where and When?

[Laird]

This decanter came into my possession last week, before the virus made its sudden entry into our lives, and I am having difficulty assigning it an origin and a date.
It has what I would call the 'Waterford' style neck rings, but is the wrong shape for a wide bodied Prussian decanter.
The base is plain and polished.
The stopper has nothing to do with it.
My thought at the moment is that it might be American. As for an approximate date, I'm struggling.
Any thoughts?

[Paul S.]

It's a shame the picture quality and contrast are less than good, despite my eternal pleading for plain dark backgrounds when photographing clear glass.
However  ……..   I think I'm seeing pulley neck rings, which together with the strawberry diamonds and finger bottoms was an overall style c. 1810 to 1830, and mushroom stoppers, as you will know, were commonplace on Prussians from this period.            There is some leeway in body shape with Prussians too  -  the shoulder is sometimes pronounced, but can also appear with a more gently sloping curve.
According to McConnell this was a popular shape across the continent of Europe and the States in the period we're speaking of, though not sure what the differences are when comparing each side of the pond.
Sorry to hear the stopper is doesn't match  -  are you seeing any matching No. on the body or neck of the bottle?

Were pulley wheel neck rings particularly Anglo-Irish, just Irish, or across the board so to speak?               You're also saying that the base is completely flat, without a pontil depression or any kind of radial star?  -  this seems unusual perhaps  -  and what in particular suggests a States origin?

Having said all that, always possible that this is a C20 copy  -  what might there be about this bottle to rule that suggestion out? and what is the extent, if any, of wear?  -  any seeds in the glass?

I suppose there'll be the usual silence from others.

[Laird]

Thanks Paul for your usual perceptive comments.
Apologies for the quality of the pics. Of course a dark background would be more helpful.
There are no scratched numbers and no obvious specs or bubbles in the glass.
The base, sorry for my previous inadequate description, is plain but it is dished and has a polished pontil.
Pulley wheel neck rings as you say. Were these exclusive to Waterford?

[catshome]

From the picture, it seems to have a similar feel to your "corporation" decanter.  How do they compare in the hand?

[Paul S.]

it seems that pulley rings were fairly common around this period, so not exclusive to Ireland - and it may be that what determines if this bottle is genuine period comes down to wear, colour and the size of pontil depression.
Aside from wear on the base, wear might occur around the midriff where contact would have been made with other items, and a slight leaden olour might also help with suggesting that this piece is Regency, rather than much later, although colour is a debatable issue when we have only the screen to go by.

Largish, shallow polished depressions on the base are certainly a hallmark of first third of C19.
Yes, the pix are now better, thanks.           Just my opinion, but it looks like it could be 'right', so even more sad that the stopper is missing. 

[LEGSY]

  Lovely decanter i have a pair of glasses with the pulley rings
and a similar base in my eyes with almost circular patterns not
meaning to confuse things just a picture for comparison of the rings
but i had suspected an Irish connection with this type of Pulley ring
so it is good to know it was not exclusive to Irish glass thank you

[Paul S.]

Although it might seem logical, apparently we can't apply the description of pulley rings to knops, and where knops exist showing the same sort of profile as pulley rings we have to call then 'annulated'  -  although they show the same outline of the centre band projecting slightly more than those either side.
Annulated knops seem to have originated c. 1710 but appear not to have lasted much past 1760  -  though doubtless the copyists were at work as usual on later pieces.

If you read McConnell, he appears to be saying that pulley rings (on bodies) were being made in England (Stourbridge) and Edinburgh's Holyrood Glass Works - in addition, presumably, to Ireland.

[Laird]

As to a comparison with my Corporation decanter, this one impresses me less. It doesn't give me the same sense of 'quality', but maybe I'm biased and this is personal rather than the result of objective observation.
There are the usual scratches on the base from use and some minor chipping on the body where it was knocked against other glassware, so the signs of use and potential age are present. I just don't see a similar example illustrated  in AMcC's book.
I would like to believe it is Regency, or even more so Georgian, but I don't have the confidence to make that claim. This is the second one I have had of this shape/type, the other I gave as a gift to friends, so no longer have it to hand to photograph.
It needs thinking about and further exploration.