Topic: Blue Mantel Lusters - Assist with Age & Origin

[Andrew Andersen]

Greetings - I found this pair of mantel lusters in a charity shop.  I instantly thought English, Bristol glass - 19th Century- but then started to wonder if they are newer.   1930s?  Or from France? In very good condition.  They appear to have been lamped sometime mid 20th century. Any help with a date or ideas about origin?
Thank you for your assistance,
Andrew

[NevB]

They could be Bohemian but my thoughts are they are French opaline glass from around 1880-1900, maybe earlier, it's difficult to attribute a maker, a nice find though. Many pieces are said to be Bristol glass but they are more often than not Bohemian.

[Andrew Andersen]

Thank you!  Much appreciate your reply and knowledge. Very exciting to confirm they are 19th c.   So Prob. French or Bohemian. The gold work does remind me of Bohemian!  Thanks again!!

[Lustrousstone]

Definitely not English. What little decorative making there was in Bristol (apart from the very modern stuff) ceased decades before this was produced. Unfortunately, the internet perpetuates the Bristol glass myth. I would also say it was late 19th C Bohemian rather than French. The style is very typical. Unfortunately, the internet also perpetuates the myth that opaline glass is French. Some of it is but much of it is Bohemian

[NevB]

Interestingly Christine Vincendeau in her book Les Opalines describes a pair of lustres as "porte-ananas" or pineapple holders.

[Lustrousstone]

The pineapple holders have much flatter/wider tops than this common deep cup shape; you were displaying your wealth, not hiding it in a cup. These were for mantlepieces or similar and designed to reflect candlelight

[Ekimp]

The French certainly consider them to be pineapple holders. When you search “Porte ananas”, there are very many. I wonder how they were sold in the catalogues in France.

[Lustrousstone]

The French also call all art glass pate de verre! Silber & Fleming has them (many of them) in the coloured and decorated glass ornaments section and calls them lustres. There is not one in the tableware section, which includes table ornaments. Absolutely no mention of pineapples. Pineapples were also much more commonplace by the time these were made and there wasn't the same desire to display them on their own as there had been in earlier times

[Ekimp]

There is a lustre described as a pineapple holder c1850 in this L'Est Républicain review of the Baccarat museum, presumably the annotation of their photographs came from the museum - “un porte-ananas (vers 1850) dans le nouveau musée Baccarat”:
https://www.estrepublicain.fr/edition-de-luneville/2015/10/07/baccarat-ouverture-du-nouveau-musee-de-la-cristallerie

This is from Korean Facebook but there is a review of Charles DeGalle’s birthplace that has lustre type pineapple holders, one shown on the table holding a pineapple.
https://www.facebook.com/MaisonNataleCharlesdeGaulle/?locale=ko_KR

Direct link to the four photos from above:
https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=681342474015951&set=pcb.681342524015946&locale=ko_KR

And also the book Nev mentions.

Silber & Fleming was a London retailer, not French?

[Lustrousstone]

Those ones in the French references are very possibly pineapple stands; note the wide shallow cups. My point was not that lustre-type pineapple stands don't exist, rather that they have to be the correct shape. The ones under discussion (Andrew's) would be useless for pineapples. Silber and Fleming was a London wholesaler and the catalogue is c1889, which is likely about when Andrew's date from. By then, displaying your pineapple was no longer a thing but pairs of lustres on your mantle were. However, you would have been very wealthy to afford two pineapples even when displaying them was a thing.

Some lustres found on the internet, particularly early to mid 19th C ones, are possibly pineapple stands. But be aware that most won't be. The internet is very useful but it also perpetuates numerous glass myths; polished pontil mark = Whitefriars; hot-worked glass = Murano; enamelled glass = Bristol; a solid lump of glass = hand blown....