Topic: Interesting Engraved Goblet - German? English? Czech?

[Frank]

I didn't see that as a plume but the top part of the soft hat. Interesting how people see different things.

Nice engraving though.

[eglass]

Frank, now that you described what you see - I can see it. I'm not familiar with that type of soft cap so to me it looked "wrong".

I just received a reply from Wilfrid von Spaeth, at the website Peter recommended. Thanks again, Peter! This site [email address removed & website link added below] is very informative and lots of nice eye candy. http://www.glasvonspaeth.com

Hello!

This really is an interesting goblet. The engraving is excellent. I
think it was done in North Bohemia in the last quarter of the 19th.
century. To determine the engraver is very difficult because there were
too many artists working in the same manner.

Regards

Wilfrid von Spaeth

[eglass]

oops! The actual website that Peter posted was this one:

http://www.glasvonspaeth.com/deutsch/frames.php?id=3&sprache=engl

[Frank]

Nice site.

As a hat lover and having known too many people in a wide variety of very serious re-enactment societies, I always was fascinated by the incongruence with the hats they wear being so different from those in Hollywood for this period! We have all grown up with a very uniform idea of uniforms and prior to our lifetimes the reality was very different.

Interesting that Wilfrid von Spaeth did not comment on the stem, perhaps if you drew his attention to that. Plus the foliage style.

[krsilber]

I agree with Frank, it would be worth asking about the stem.  You might point out the uniform, too.

FWIW, I found an image of Austro-Hungarian cavalry in 1898.  Looks like they wore kepis, too!  Their rank insignia is near the cuff.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:KuK_Kavallerie_1898.jpg

I didn't pay much attention to the blob above the hat.  It seems too ill-defined to look intentional.  The ambiguous shape of the hat, and the fact that armies of multiple countries wore similar styles, suggest that it's not a very good detail for ID purposes.  The shape and placement of the chevron and the X on the hat seem more relevant.  The suggestion of consulting someone who knows about these things is a good one.

Without meaning any disrespect of von Spaeth's opinion, I would still send photos to CMOG simply because if this does happen to be American and depicting a US Civil War soldier it could be worth a lot of money and have significant historical value.  

I suspect "Americo-Bohemian" glass is more common in the US than people are aware of, but proving a piece is American it is another matter.  "An illustrated Boston and Sandwich catalogue of 1870-1875, as well as quantities of fragments excavated at the factory site, shows that Bohemian-style glass accounted for a significant percentage of its production in the 1860s and 1870s." (American Glass 1760-1930)  A third of the glass shown by New England Glass Co. at a 1953 exhibition in New York was Bohemian-style.  People today understandably assume such pieces are Bohemian.

For those interested in the subject, here's an article about glass by one of the best known engravers of this style who worked in America, the German-born Louis Vaupel:  http://www.cutglass.org/articles/art142.htm
Also a photo of a sample of Americo-Bohemian glass at CMOG.  The goblets are New England Glass Co. (probably by Vaupel), and the pitcher is by Henry Barnes Leighton, son of the New England factory superintendent.

[eglass]

Frank and Kristi, I will send another email to von Spaeth and perhaps he'll be willing to take a closer look.

I did send off a note to CMOG yesterday, but haven't heard back. I don't expect to hear from them right away - I've sent requests before to them, and have waited for several weeks for a reply so I'm not surprised.

Kristi, thank you for your input regarding the "Americo-Bohemian" glass of the New England Glass Company. QUITE fascinating to say the least. But like you said - "proving a piece is American it is another matter." 

I thank you all again - I need to say goodnight, but will check in tomorrow should I hear anything from my queries to von Spaeth or CMOG.

[krsilber]

proving a piece is American it is another matter

That's why this piece is so exciting.  If it is an American private depicted, it is very highly likely American.  From there you (or someone) might be able to use the distinctive stem and shape to possibly pinpoint a company.  I think this is potentially a museum piece because of the fine and distinctive engraving and the subject matter.

This kind of engraving has long been a special interest of mine.  One of my first glass purchases was an excellent Bohemian intaglio engraved tumbler depicting horses in a forest scene, and I've looked at many since.  This one is very different.  The engraver hid the soldier almost entirely behind the rearing horse, yet made certain that you knew who he was, or rather, who he represented.  It shows the capture of a frightened, wild-looking horse.  The fence indicates it belongs to someone.  This is a story of an invading army stealing horses, not your standard hunting scene.

[krsilber]

Ach, durnit.  Found a flaw in my US Civil War theory:  the chevron is upside-down.  It went the other way then, and was only switched to the position shown sometime near the end of the 19th C.  Humbug.

[eglass]

LOL, Kristi - but it still COULD be a plausible theory with artistic license taken. I'll sure get back with info from CMOG once they review it.

[krsilber]

After looking at a bunch more examples of Bohemian pieces with engraving in this style I realized the foot is totally wrong for someone like Pfohl, or of that era.  The foot on Bohemian pieces like this is typically heavy, chunky and cut.  The bowl shape would be odd, too.

Wish I knew more about what the French did in this vein.  Haven't given up on American, though.  I'm looking forward to seeing what Jane Spillman says.

Quite an enigma.