Topic: Loetz shape? but not Loetz I don't think

[flying free]

So are they just 'generic' Bohemian, or even not at all?  I would welcome any thoughts as I want to sell these and have no idea how to describe them

I bought them from a lady who was in her late 70's at least who told me they were her mother's vases.  I think I do believe her.  They do have a lot of age related wear to their bases.  However, I am confused as to what they are.
The shape appears to be the same as a green tango vase on Alfredo's site under Loetz - see here I hope



http://sites.google.com/site/loetzandglass/loetz-4--tango-glass-1 

Scroll down to number 9.

but my pair of vases a) have a white interior and I thought all tango was a single colour cased in clear, b) have a ground pontil which has not been polished, c) are not marked and d) I am pretty certain they are the same shape but I can't check the size and I also guess that this shape might be one that many made not just Loetz? and lastly e) they are a beautiful clear yellow and from what I have read this doesn't appear to be thought of as a 'Loetz' yellow which seems to be a bit softer, more egg yolky?

so, any thoughts on whether or not there is any point searching further would be hugely appreciated.  Many thanks in advance for any help or advice  
m

[petersend]

I think they are Bohemian and could possibly have been made by Weltz.  They are nice vases.  Good luck! Deb

[flying free]

Hi Deb and welcome to the board
and thank you for your reply.  That is another avenue for me to explore.  I hadn't heard of Weltz so I'm off to do a bit of searching.
Many thanks
m

[flying free]

Just for future reference for searchers I think the spelling referred to Welz not Weltz 
I can see the similarity in the few I have found with the white interior and the rim treatment. However I haven't seen anything in this colourway or shape.  I also havent' seen any with the ground but unpolished pontil from Welz mainly probably  because I haven't been able to see base pics of most of the vases I have seen 
Still searching and open to views, advice etc 
many thanks
m

[Lustrousstone]

The pontil mark worries me. In my experience, Bohemian pontil marks generally seem to be completely unfinished, or nicely ground if not polished. Alternatively, mould blown items such as this don't have a pontil mark, even if the item has been hand finished after moulding. Alfredo very cleverly doesn't say anything about the vase the same shape as yours....

Personally I might go for China and relatively modern

[flying free]

thanks Christine.  Yes I realised on Alfredo's site that they were referred to in conjunction with colour reference only. 
I've been doing a bit more digging and there is another pair for sale on ebay, without the white interior and with a rough unground pontil mark.  I will be curious to see if there is an influx of these for sale, as the two I have do have a lot of what appears to be natural wear on their bases.
To be fair to the pair I have  the pontil mark is ground very nicely, perfectly centred and round on both pots, but the middle bit probably would have ground through I guess if they ground it any more rather than it just being left.  I am curious to know how they would have done the frill round the rim and the black piping (sorry about the wrong term here  ) without attaching it at the other end to do so though?  How would they have been able to do it ? 
They also have a bit of an orange glow under uv.
m

[Lustrousstone]

They have to attach it at the bottom where the pontil mark is, which is why the pontil mark is there. It's the coarseness of the grinding that concerns me, i.e., coarse sand paper like rather than emery paper like. The orange glow is cadmium, one of the less common colorants these days (toxic heavy metals and all that, but safe in glass vases) but who knows what they are using in China.

[flying free]

Ah right, sorry I misunderstood this  'Alternatively, mould blown items such as this don't have a pontil mark, even if the item has been hand finished after moulding.' . 
The close up picture was taken angled to the light to illuminate the base wear and probably makes the pontil marks look very rough but in fact they are completely smooth not at all coarse.  They are well made pieces of glass. I shall keep my eyes peeled for any more to compare to.  Thanks again.
m

[Lustrousstone]

'Alternatively, mould blown items such as this don't have a pontil mark, even if the item has been hand finished after moulding.'

No idea, but I have several examples. Possibly they use something called a gadget to grip the bottom.

[kane_u_pain]

Interesting...I just picked this up yesterday (similar colur way) from a charity shop. It seems I have scored 4 Czech/Bohemian pieces over the past week! I know nothing about Czech glass but am slowly learning.